Sticky Shed Help Thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter Beck
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Lt. Bob said:
all of my tapes are from the 70's and 80's so I'm screwed.
except I want to archive them mainly so I just bought a food dehydrator and I'm gonna read up on baking.
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A food dehydrator works well. Got mine from Walmart. I never thought I’d count a food dehydrator from Walmart as part of my studio inventory, but it’s paid for itself many times over the years in the things I was able to recover.

Eddie Ciletti’s site has the most concise instructions of any one site, but there is one caution I should mention. The instructions to wind the tape so it’s even before baking is incorrect. Never do that! Running a tape that has not been baked is hard on the tape and the machine. I exchanged a couple emails with him a long time ago about that and he said he thought he may revise it, but it probably wasn’t a big priority for him. Just remember to bake the reel as is and then spool it back and forth to make an even wind afterwards. Also a lot of the info on wiki about sticky shed is wrong. I guess I should get around to writing the definitive guide and posting it… not on a forum, but a web page. But I seem to have less and less time all the time.

Analog Tape Restoration: If I knew you were coming I'd Have Baked a Tape
 
Beck said:
A food dehydrator works well. Got mine from Walmart. I never thought I’d count a food dehydrator from Walmart as part of my studio inventory, but it’s paid for itself many times over the years in the things I was able to recover.

Eddie Ciletti’s site has the most concise instructions of any one site, but there is one caution I should mention. The instructions to wind the tape so it’s even before baking is incorrect. Never do that! Running a tape that has not been baked is hard on the tape and the machine. I exchanged a couple emails with him a long time ago about that and he said he thought he may revise it, but it probably wasn’t a big priority for him. Just remember to bake the reel as is and then spool it back and forth to make an even wind afterwards. Also a lot of the info on wiki about sticky shed is wrong. I guess I should get around to writing the definitive guide and posting it… not on a forum, but a web page. But I seem to have less and less time all the time.

Analog Tape Restoration: If I knew you were coming I'd Have Baked a Tape
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cool .... thanks man.
I may have some questions about my 3340AS if it decides to be balky .... haven't run it in years.
 
Chilljam said:
Didn't seem to find anything on BASF LGS 52?

I think it's a 1mil thickness tape manufactured in the 60s?

Sticky?

Five x 7" BASF 1800ft *Reel to Reel tapes !!! | eBay
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None of the BASF/EMTEC tapes ever had Sticky-Shed, so you’re ok there. But this is really old stuff here. LGS 52 goes back to the 50’s and 60’s. Also the seller has the specs wrong. It’s not 1-mil. Both Scotch 202 and BASF LGS 52 are 1.5 mil thick and 1200 feet on a 7” reel. LGS 35 is the 1-mil version. I wouldn’t expect much out of these tapes sonically speaking.

The only tape from the AGFA/BASF/EMTEC pedigree that had true sticky shed was AGFA PEM 469. Some will claim 468 had it too, but they’re either confusing it with 469 or they’ve experienced some higher than normal oxide shedding, which is not sticky-shed.

One of the problems is that not everyone knows how to correctly diagnose tape issues, so they throw it all into the sticky-shed category. Some older tapes may flake or have Loss of Lubricant (LOL)… same initials as Laughing Out Loud, but not funny at all. :)

So the bottom line is there are no sticky-shed BASF tapes, but tapes can still be crappy for other reasons.
 
Beck said:
None of the BASF/EMTEC tapes ever had Sticky-Shed, so you’re ok there. But this is really old stuff here. LGS 52 goes back to the 50’s and 60’s. Also the seller has the specs wrong. It’s not 1-mil. Both Scotch 202 and BASF LGS 52 are 1.5 mil thick and 1200 feet on a 7” reel. LGS 35 is the 1-mil version. I wouldn’t expect much out of these tapes sonically speaking.

The only tape from the AGFA/BASF/EMTEC pedigree that had true sticky shed was AGFA PEM 469. Some will claim 468 had it too, but they’re either confusing it with 469 or they’ve experienced some higher than normal oxide shedding, which is not sticky-shed.

One of the problems is that not everyone knows how to correctly diagnose tape issues, so they throw it all into the sticky-shed category. Some older tapes may flake or have Loss of Lubricant (LOL)… same initials as Laughing Out Loud, but not funny at all. :)

So the bottom line is there are no sticky-shed BASF tapes, but tapes can still be crappy for other reasons.
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Excellent, thank you.

Hmm how about the sonic performance of BASF LP 35? is it similar to Ampex 406?
 
Chilljam said:
Excellent, thank you.

Hmm how about the sonic performance of BASF LP 35? is it similar to Ampex 406?
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LP 35 is ok, but not great sonically speaking. Not to be confused with LPR 35. They are two completely different tapes. LP 35 is nothing like Ampex 406
 
I've been baking and transferring loads 2" Ampex 456 tapes over the past few weeks. Used my kitchen oven, top rack' and set the oven to as low as it would go. It would cycle between 120 and 165 degrees with the door cracked open, and 120 and 185 degrees with the door closed. Baked for 10 hours either way (door open or closed) and let them cool for a few hours.The tapes played beautifully and sounded great.
 
Jeff Ling said:
I've been baking and transferring loads 2" Ampex 456 tapes over the past few weeks. Used my kitchen oven, top rack' and set the oven to as low as it would go. It would cycle between 120 and 165 degrees with the door cracked open, and 120 and 185 degrees with the door closed. Baked for 10 hours either way (door open or closed) and let them cool for a few hours.The tapes played beautifully and sounded great.
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165 is on the high side, actually too high and 185 degrees is way off the scale. You lucked out if no damage has been done. However, even if the tape or plastic hub isn't deformed from the heat, overheating the tape will increase print-through and diminish high frequencies. The objective is to remove moisture, so a top temperature of 140 F (60 C) is more than adequate. Well, good luck anyway and be careful.
 
Short of reading nearly 200 posts, I don't really know how to use this thread to determine a good source for good tape. So please forgive me if my questions in this post are not appropriate. I'm still learning how best to leverage all of your insights.

I need to source some 1/2" Tape for my recently acquired Tascam MSR-16. The one Reel of Tape that came with the equipment seems to suffer from Shed.

This site retails tape:
1/2" Open Reel Analog Audio Recording Tape

Specifically they carry:
RMGI SM91134220
RMGI SM91134230
RMGI SM91134720
ATR Magnetics 30907

Is this a good source and is the product good quality?
Can anyone recommend a better source for better tape?

I've heard I should try and use Ampex 456, but don't know how to be sure I am getting a quality product.

I am located in Detroit Michigan.
 
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456 is no longer made so don't even bother. RMGI & ATR are pretty much the only games in town & they make good stuff.
 
Brother Rob said:
Short of reading nearly 200 posts, I don't really know how to use this thread to determine a good source for good tape. So please forgive me if my questions in this post are not appropriate. I'm still learning how best to leverage all of your insights.

I need to source some 1/2" Tape for my recently acquired Tascam MSR-16. The one Reel of Tape that came with the equipment seems to suffer from Shed.

This site retails tape:
1/2" Open Reel Analog Audio Recording Tape

Specifically they carry:
RMGI SM91134220
RMGI SM91134230
RMGI SM91134720
ATR Magnetics 30907

Is this a good source and is the product good quality?
Can anyone recommend a better source for better tape?

I've heard I should try and use Ampex 456, but don't know how to be sure I am getting a quality product.

I am located in Detroit Michigan.
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Rick is correct that Ampex is not made anymore. It was most recently sold under the Quantegy brand, but was the same tape made at the same plant in Opelika, Alabama where most Ampex tape has been made since the beginning. Ampex 456 and Quantegy 456 are the same tape.

I do not agree however that you should not bother with it. It is an excellent tape and can still be found new old stock (NOS) on eBay, Craigslist, facebook market place, and other sources. You should avoid Ampex tape made before 1995 and always avoid used tape... often referred to as "One-pass" tape.

I know this thread has gotten rather difficult to navigate, so I'm working on a tape guide that will be on my own website.

The following goes for every member here: If you see tape on eBay that you're not sure about feel free to send me a PM and I'll tell you if it's ok or not. I will not buy it out from under you. Firstly, that would be unethical and a violation of trust. Secondly, I have so much tape already I can barely walk in my studio.

I understand where Ruskin is coming from because finding good Ampex tape is like navigating a minefield, but it can be done, it's well worth it, and I would be happy to help anyone who wants to try.

When searching eBay be especially wary of the self-proclaimed "Tape experts." There are some on there now twisting my words from this thread and others in their listings, trying to appear they know what they're talking about. But they're deliberately selling tape they know is from the stick-shed years.

I wish I could direct you to a retail outlet for Ampex/Quantegy tape, but for now we have to find new old stock.
 
Hello, can you tell by looking at the used tape whether or not it's got the sticky shed syndrome ? Would bad tape feel sticky or...?

peace & kindness, charles
 
Hello, I have 2 rolls of 456 that I used very little, hardly at all about 4 or 5 years ago. I can't remember when I bought it, but, somewhere around 1998 maybe ? At any rate, how can I tell if it's still OK to use ?

Also, I have a brand new roll of G9 that I never used and was wondering if I could start using it ? To tell you the truth, I'm not even sure what my MSR16 is calibrated for since I bought it used in near mint condition from a friend of a friend. At that time I didn't know enough about the whole world of analog recording and tape to ask about what kind or brand or whatever of tape I should use?

peace & kindness, charles
 
No, unfortunately there is no reliable way to detect tape with sticky-shed syndrome by look or feel. You’ll know when it runs really slowly or comes to a stop during play, FF or RW. More mild cases may appear to be running ok but your high frequencies will be down by several dB or just sound muddy in general. The best way to avoid it is to avoid buying the kind of tape that is susceptible to it. If you have material you need to recover from old tape from sticky-shed brands and/or years of manufacture, the only thing to do is “Bake” it as discussed in the first few posts of this thread. The reason for this thread is because the only sure fire way of avoiding Sticky-Shed tape is by knowing what not to buy.
 
We had some shedding issues with a BASF SM911 half inch tape. Judging from a former post in this thread it looks mid-90's. Is this a common issue? Because I love the sound of them and they are not hard to find.

It's not in the Ampex 456 league, but it's enough to make the recording fade slightly and gunk the heads a bit. Got some SM900 from the same seller (came with the deck) and they're perfectly fine though our Fostex ain't calibrated for them.
 
I have a lot of 1/2" BASF/EMTEC 911 from various years...stuff from when it was just "BASF", right up to the last runs before EMTEC closed up shop...and none of it is SSS.
That said, I recently got a reel of used 2" EMTEC 911...and it was all nasty SSS.

I think that 911 tape itself is of good quality and doesn't normally shed...*if properly stored and cared for*.
 
Any shedding you might encounter with BASF or EMTEC 911 is not true SSS. That is, it’s not due to an unstable binder like you have with certain Ampex and Scotch formulations. However, every tape company can and did have an occasional bad run. I’ve personally never had any problems at all with 911, except RMGI. Be careful, because it’s more likely that an unscrupulous seller has put something other than 911 on a 911 reel. This is one of the things that confuses the Sticky-Shed issue and makes it more difficult to sort out. People buy unsealed tape on 911 reels in 911 boxes, but it’s not 911 tape, or it’s the bad RMGI 911 that’s still floating around out there. I think tapes and reels get mixed up far more often than people actually encounter bad runs of tape that aren’t usually known for excessive shedding. BASF/EMTEC 911 and 468 are very clean running tapes.

If you do have a real problem with BASF or EMTEC it’s going to be heavier than normal oxide shedding, and again that is not Sticky-Shed, but it does cause some problems same as SSS like loss of high freqs. Baking doesn’t help in these cases because there's nothing wrong with the binder, but running the tape all the way through with a lint-free cloth against the oxide will.

It’s simply loose oxide on the surface. All magnetic tape sheds to some degree. Some you can barely see with the naked eye and some will be bad enough that you’ll need to clean the tape path more often during a session. But eventually the oxide shedding will diminish as the offending tape is used. One of the worst for heavier than normal oxide shedding was Ampex/Quantegy 499, but it never had Sticky-Shed either.
 
Beck said:
... it’s more likely that an unscrupulous seller has put something other than 911 on a 911 reel.
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That's the same thing I thought about my one 2" reel of 911....it's just so unlike for 911 to be that sticky, and it acts more like 456.
Of course, when I bought a lot of used 2" reels, I know it was going to be a gamble, but having gone through about 40 reels of used 2" (456, 499, 996 and the one reel of 911) I only came up with about 6 reels of bad SSS tape...and they were all 456, plus the one reel of what is supposed to be 911...so I do wonder if it is really 456 or something else that ended up on the 911 reel.
 
You could always give the tape the smell test. Ampex/Quantegy and BASF/EMTEC smell totally different. Just put the reels in boxes and preferably the inner plastic overnight and then compare them the next day. If the tape that you think is 911 smells like known Ampex then you know you've got the wrong tape on the reel. It's hard to characterize the smell of different tapes, but checking them side by side you can really tell the difference. I would describe SM911 as smelling sort of like crayons, while 456 is a bit more of a chemical smell like some type of car wax... just very subtle. Scotch 226 and 206 smell more like Ampex. Maxell reel-to-reel is almost sweet smelling compared to the others, like it might be good to eat. :)

But anyway, regardless of how you describe them there are obvious differences in aroma when doing A/B smell test side-by-side.

And again, the risk of getting tapes and reels mixed up is one reason I never buy used tape. Of course I know you got some freebees and that's hard to pass up, especially 2" tape being as pricy as it is these days. Hope that helps.
 
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