PDP
There once was a note
How common is stem-mastering now, in regards to present day DAW mixes. If I want to send out a mix to be mastered is it the more accepted practice ?
M
moresound
Loud Sun Studios
PROS
More control over each group of instruments.
Ability to adjust mixes that are out of balance.
Ability to process each stem through a separate signal chain.
CONS
Stem-mastering can alter balance of the mix.
Individual processing of stems may make them sound incongruent with the rest of material.
Processing of stems adds small amounts of distortions and noise to each stem and thus may magnify the distortions and noise on the entire master proportionally to the number of stems being processed.
Generally well-done mixes do not need stem-mastering as this process potentially magnifies the noise floor and amount of total harmonic distortions
Found this in an article and pretty much holds true.
But if you know of a number of mastering houses and say you prefer ones drum tracks final work over an other and the same for vocals etc. ..... I guess you could do it that way if you have the cash but to me it seems like a waste of time and money.
You can always find a house that you like and respect and stay with them.
More control over each group of instruments.
Ability to adjust mixes that are out of balance.
Ability to process each stem through a separate signal chain.
CONS
Stem-mastering can alter balance of the mix.
Individual processing of stems may make them sound incongruent with the rest of material.
Processing of stems adds small amounts of distortions and noise to each stem and thus may magnify the distortions and noise on the entire master proportionally to the number of stems being processed.
Generally well-done mixes do not need stem-mastering as this process potentially magnifies the noise floor and amount of total harmonic distortions
Found this in an article and pretty much holds true.
But if you know of a number of mastering houses and say you prefer ones drum tracks final work over an other and the same for vocals etc. ..... I guess you could do it that way if you have the cash but to me it seems like a waste of time and money.
You can always find a house that you like and respect and stay with them.
PDP
There once was a note
Thanks More,
Yeah, I spend alot of time making a good clean mix the way I want, so disturbing those levels may be adding an unneccesary problem, and more time.
Thanks,
Pete
Yeah, I spend alot of time making a good clean mix the way I want, so disturbing those levels may be adding an unneccesary problem, and more time.
Thanks,
Pete
Massive Master
www.massivemastering.com
I hate working from stems...
Eh, I suppose it's not that bad - sometimes. But so much more often than not, it seems that the engineers are looking to "pass the buck" on mixes that they/their clients don't want to commit.
Eh, I suppose it's not that bad - sometimes. But so much more often than not, it seems that the engineers are looking to "pass the buck" on mixes that they/their clients don't want to commit.
joeym
New member
I just had a whole album stem-mastered and I like the result very much. If you've got an ME who knows what you're after, it's absolutely no problem. The mix still has to be Ok though, no amount of stem mastering is gonna fix any bad mixes.
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
This is exactly what I don't get about stem mastering *if one has a choice*. If there's some logistical reason to send off stems that can't now be avoided, that's one thing. Things like like running out of mixing time/budget, or the stems are coming from separate studios, are some examples
But if there's no logistical reason to forward the stems, if it's just a personal preference, then that pretty much labels the mixing engineer as unqualified to mix, and the mix itself as unfinished. The answer to that it seems to me is to get someone else to finish the job before sending it off to mastering instead of sending an unfinished mix to mastering.
IMHO and all that jazz.
G.
joeym
New member
In my case, it was a question of preference and it paid off.
karumba
New member
if you have a high quality mix, then there is no reason to master stems, but if there are smaller (or bigger) problems, its better fix them without compromise on the stem tracks than on the masterbus. typical things were i request stems:
- some levels (mostly bassdrum+bass do not match or vox) levels are not correct
- vox or some instruments have too much dynamics or are not well equalized
of course, these problems should be better fixed in the mix itself, but very often, there is a lack of
- budget (e.g. for an mixing engineer)
- knowledge (tracks mixed by the musician himself)
- a good acoustical environment to judge things correctly
in those cases, i think stem mastering is a good way to optimize the sound to a solid level which wouldn't have been possible without stems.
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
The best solution in such cases are to fix them in mixing before they even get to be stems. Of course, if the mixing engineer is not up to the task, then that's a different story. But then the question is, if the mixing engineer cannot do his job, then why is he even doing it to begin with?
G.
karumba
New member
e.g. because the budget is tight - which today is mostly the case. even if you get your song mixed for quite a low amount of money - lets say - 250 or 350$, stem-mastering could make sense if the mix itself is good, but some small problems are better fixed by stems. for me in that case its faster to request stems & to do the changes myself instead of explaining what i mean.
M
moresound
Loud Sun Studios
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
If they're going to spend money on someone to get the job done, then they shouldn't spend it on someone who can't do the job. If the mix engineer can't hand a finished mix to the mastering engineer, then the mix is not ready to be mastered.
Like I said earlier, if logistics dictate that the ME be handed an unfinished mix, that's a different story. But the whole idea of *purposely* waiting until the final stage before getting things right is just ludicrous. Its like waiting until the painters come in to make sure the walls are built to spec.
G.
PDP
There once was a note
I agree if its a matter of levels, I'd rather have the original 20 or 30 tracks to work with than 3 or 4 stems anyway. However, there is a mix on some records where the vocals sit so nicely, like their separate, yet not standing out at all. I cant help wonder if thats a result of the instruments and vocals being mastered with separate stems, or just a great mix. Its a distinct sound, I've only heard on a few recordings.
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
Of course it's impossible to say for sure without knowing which specific recordings (and which specific re-mastered releases of those recordings) you're talking about, but there's no good reason why one should be able to hear whether a song was mastered from stems or not. Chances are what you're hearing is just an engineering and producing style result (tracking, mixing and mastering) that has a particular character of sound you like.
G.
PDP
There once was a note
I agree, it's interesting to me that Joey chose to stem master because thats the style I hear it in, hard rock. Like the Who Quadraphenia, generally mixes that have loud power guitar sounds. Anyway I agree, it could be alot of things, maybe even just great singing.
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
See, this is where the question gets muddied up. Which Quadrophenia mastering job are you referring to, the British LP of 1973 or the American one? Or maybe you're referring to the MCA CD set remastered in 1985, or maybe the Polydor re-release remastered again in 1996? Or possibly one of the many vinyl singles separately mastered in '73 and '74?
If your answer is "all of the above", that you just like the sound of Quadrophenia in general, then the answer is, "What you're hearing has nothing to do with the mastering."
G.
PDP
There once was a note
Hahaha,
I kinda figured you'd know all that, and it pretty much answers my question.
Have a good Holiday !
I kinda figured you'd know all that, and it pretty much answers my question.
Have a good Holiday !
karumba
New member
stem-mastering isn't intended to finish a whole mix during the mastering-session. the mix itself should be finished. but if you just would like to pull down the bass for e.g. 2dB, you do that better on stems, because its more difficult (or even impossible) to do it on the masterbus. you could now argue, that a mix is not finished if the bass is too loud, but hey...mastering also includes sometimes fixing. if you pay 1 or 2k$ for mixing, that *shouldn't* be needed (or you got ripped of ;-)), but current budgets are tight & people are mixing by themself or can't pay much für mixing, but want to have the best possible result - and this *could* be achieved if you have control on each individual stem.
btw, i don't like it if the whole mix (i.e. all separate tracks) is delivered & i need to "re-mix" first before i can start mastering. as a ME, i would like to have a view on the big picture & don't get involved into the mixing process. thats the point of mastering!
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
I don't want to give the impression that I already knew all those details in my head. I looked them upHahaha,
I kinda figured you'd know all that, and it pretty much answers my question.
.But the general point is that these days when anyone mentions or asks about "the mastering job" on a certain piece of work, one *has to* ask which version. This is especially true on old albums originally released when vinyl is all that there was and have been re-released on CD, but it's not limited to those recordings. There are often different mastering jobs between British or German and American vinyl releases, as well as often more than one CD remaster. Even with CD-only releases, there are often several versions. I have four different copies of XTC's "Peter Pumkinhead" that each have noticeably different remastering jobs. Similar with Primal Scream's "Rocks". And all that's not even including different versions that often appear on meTube, or the MP3 cuts as released by meTunes and such.
The bottom like is that one simply cannot talk about "the mastering job" by just naming an artist and album or single title, because there can literally be a half dozen or more different mastering jobs associated with just one title.
Merry Christmas!
G.
