spillage onto other tracks

[desmond22]

hi all.
ive got a tascam tsr8 and a tascam m216 mixer. is there any way to stop spillage from track one going onto 5, track 2 on to 6 etc?

 

[briank]

More info needed--I'm not clear on what you mean by "spillage"? Can you illustrate the problem more specifically? Track bleed through the mic, console crosstalk, tape print-through or even just improper routing all come to mind but it's impossible to say without knowing any details.

 

[desmond22]

thanks

Well on my mixer (m216 tascam) Channels 1 & 5 go to sub group 1, 2 & 6 - sub group 2, 3 & 7 sub group 3, 4 & 8 sub group 4.
The first 4 tracks are fine, there is no bleed, but once i record on 5,6,7 & 8 there will be bleed from the first 4 tracks. For eg. I play bass on track 1., then later down the track i record a mandolin on track 5. all of a sudden the bass appears quite loud and clear on track 5 as well as on track 1.
Am i doing something wrong?

 

[Lance Lawson]

If you're not doing something wrong then your mixer has something wrong with it. Sounds to me like a mixer problem. Have you used the mixer before without issue?

 

[desmond22]

thanks

no ive never used the mixer before. bought at the same time as 8 track. It seems that which ever track i record first, could be on track 7 for eg. this track will be clear and after for eg, track 3 is recorded and you play track 7 you wont hear track 3 on 7, but youll hear 7 on 3. its a bit of a PITA. Seems like im gonna have to use a work around until i get it fixed, ie dumping tracks onto DAW and only using 4 tracks.

 

[witzendoz]

The M216 only has 4 sub groups, The outputs are ganged together, i.e. Group out 1 is the same as Group out 5, 2 is 6, 3is 7, 4 is 8.

So if you are recording using the group outs you can only record 4 tracks at once. The reason they are ganged together is so you don't have to re-patch all the time.

The work around is to use the channel direct outs, 1 to 1, 2 to 2 etc. up to 8, and don't use the groups. Another way is to use groups 1 to 4 to channels 1 to 4 and do the direct out thing from 5 to 8. The sub groups still come in handy when mixing down.

Oh and get hold of a manual.

Cheers
Alan.

 

[The Ghost of FM]

There are no direct outs on an M200 series mixer so that won't work.

You just have to watch how you're monitoring the tape tracks that have already been recorded and ensure you're not re-assigning them again as they play to feed their buss twin neighbor. IE:1&5, 2&6, 3&7, 4&8.

This can be accomplished by using the cue mix system while you're overdubbing and turning off any assignment buttons on those tracks once they've been recorded. Set up your monitoring levels with the green colored knobs and switch your monitoring pushbutton row of switches to monitor that green cue mix.

Also, as has been said, your mixer is a 4 buss mixer. So, you can only record up to 4 independent and isolated tracks at a time. The PGM out jacks are doubled for hook up convenience only.

Cheers!

 

[witzendoz]

There are no direct outs on an M200 series mixer so that won't work.

Opps, forgot the 200's did not have direct outs, you could record from an insert by not plugging the jack all the way in, less than ideal but better than nothing.

Another way is to do 4 channels via the groups, and 2 more channels via the monitor and effects sends, make sure you have not assigned the channels using the effects sends to a group or the signal will turn up on 2 tracks at the same time. This way you can record 6 tracks at once.

Cheers
Alan.

 

[desmond22]

ok

Hiya.
Im not too worried about recording alot of tracks at once - more interested in keeping one instrument per track!
Hey Ghost i was wondering bout those green FLB buttons. THank you so much. im gonna have a play around. There is so "assign" button on this mixer.
So your saying to switch over near the monitor section. Right now its on "stereo" so if i change it to "FLB" this might fix the problem. Good to know its my lack of knowledge and not the mixers fault. I really need a manual...
thanks everyone for chiming in!

 

[desmond22]

one more..

So i just had a play around, switch FLB on and used the green knobs just to play back what ive done. there is still spillage from the previous recordings. THe panning isnt working either, its all in the middle. So when i track, after ive done the first 4 tracks, when i track on the "paired" track i should do it using the FLB channel? I cant try it right now but will do tomorrow. Im wondering how i will set levels because the faders become inactive when i switch to FLB.
Im wondering why this happens in the first place - the track spills. Doesnt seem right. What is the logic behind this. How are you really supposed to use this mixer??

 

[fstrat76]

I'm not familiar with that exact mixer, but I think Ghost has it right. Sounds like you are assigning tape-in track 1 back through buss one, which will get re-recorded and mixed with any other material assigned to buss 1. If you have a Cue system, use that to monitor previously recorded tape tracks, not the faders and buss assignment.

Not sure what you mean about pan not working, but some Cue systems like my M35 are mono Cue systems only.

Hope this helps.

 

[The Ghost of FM]

Hiya.
Im not too worried about recording alot of tracks at once - more interested in keeping one instrument per track!
Hey Ghost i was wondering bout those green FLB buttons. THank you so much. im gonna have a play around. There is so "assign" button on this mixer.So your saying to switch over near the monitor section. Right now its on "stereo" so if i change it to "FLB" this might fix the problem. Good to know its my lack of knowledge and not the mixers fault. I really need a manual...thanks everyone for chiming in!

The buttons on each mixer channel that are labeled as 1-2, 3-4 are the assignment buttons to the 4 recording busses your mixer has.

When you press those buttons down, anything playing through those channels will be feed off to the recording busses if the channel fader is up and the main buss fader is up. This includes previously recorded tape tracks.

And by fixing your "spillage tracks", what you'll need to do is erase and start over again. Once that error has been made, there is no quick fix to undo that. Sort of like having co-joined kids.

The advice you've been offered here if for when you're working with a clean slate on tape.

About the manual, yes. Get one and read it until your eyes bleed! Then read it some more!

Cheers!

 

[The Ghost of FM]

I'm not familiar with that exact mixer, but I think Ghost has it right. Sounds like you are assigning tape-in track 1 back through buss one, which will get re-recorded and mixed with any other material assigned to buss 1. If you have a Cue system, use that to monitor previously recorded tape tracks, not the faders and buss assignment.

Not sure what you mean about pan not working, but some Cue systems like my M35 are mono Cue systems only.

Hope this helps.

This is the main point that needs to be driven into Desmond's head.

Cheers!

 

[pianodano]

The buttons on each mixer channel that are labeled as 1-2, 3-4 are the assignment buttons to the 4 recording busses your mixer has.

When you press those buttons down, anything playing through those channels will be feed off to the recording busses if the channel fader is up and the main buss fader is up. This includes previously recorded tape tracks.

And by fixing your "spillage tracks", what you'll need to do is erase and start over again. Once that error has been made, there is no quick fix to undo that. Sort of like having co-joined kids.

The advice you've been offered here if for when you're working with a clean slate on tape.

About the manual, yes. Get one and read it until your eyes bleed! Then read it some more!

Cheers!

And don't forget panning hard left for odd busses and right for even buses.
I think you're right Ghost. There is something wrong with the control room mix and it's being fed back to tape. He is probably combining the recorded /off tape signal with the channel signal. Most likely he just doesn't understand all the routung possibilities. Does he set up a control room mix on that mixer as with a M308/12/20 where the control room mix is brought back into a separate section with it's own tape return?

Danny

 

[The Ghost of FM]

And don't forget panning hard left for odd busses and right for even buses.
I think you're right Ghost. There is something wrong with the control room mix and it's being fed back to tape. He is probably combining the recorded /off tape signal with the channel signal. Most likely he just doesn't understand all the routung possibilities. Does he set up a control room mix on that mixer as with a M308/12/20 where the control room mix is brought back into a separate section with it's own tape return?
Danny

I'm not sure I understand what your describing and I don't know if it will be helpful to the OP to have us discuss different mixing regimes on different boards.

Basically, he's got an 8 track deck and a 16 channel mixer. What he needs to do it have the first 8 channels of the mixer dedicated as tape return channels and use the remaining 8 channels of the board as dedicated input strips and effect returns that can be printed to tape if desired.

While overdubbing, he should set up a mono aux 1 cue mix and monitor only that, leaving all assignment buttons and faders from the first 8 channels off and down. This will ensure no track bleed through.

Then on mix down, he can now switch on those 8 tape tracks, build up a stereo mix with EQ and effects and print that off to a two track.

Cheers!

 

[pianodano]

I'm not sure I understand what your describing and I don't know if it will be helpful to the OP to have us discuss different mixing regimes on different boards.

Basically, he's got an 8 track deck and a 16 channel mixer. What he needs to do it have the first 8 channels of the mixer dedicated as tape return channels and use the remaining 8 channels of the board as dedicated input strips and effect returns that can be printed to tape if desired.

While overdubbing, he should set up a mono aux 1 cue mix and monitor only that, leaving all assignment buttons and faders from the first 8 channels off and down. This will ensure no track bleed through.

Then on mix down, he can now switch on those 8 tape tracks, build up a stereo mix with EQ and effects and print that off to a two track.

Cheers!

Ghost,

Sorry, I was trying to help. I mentioned panning to the bus because I have never in my life seen a 4 buss Tascam mixer that panned odd (hard left) didn't go to strictly busses 1,3,5,7 and even (panned hard right) goes strictly to 2,4,6,8 - while a channel panned right up the center goes to both even and odd busses. There's a very specific reason reason it's like that.

Danny

 

[The Ghost of FM]

Ghost,

Sorry, I was trying to help. I mentioned panning to the bus because I have never in my life seen a 4 buss Tascam mixer that panned odd (hard left) didn't go to strictly busses 1,3,5,7 and even (panned hard right) goes strictly to 2,4,6,8 - while a channel panned right up the center goes to both even and odd busses. There's a very specific reason reason it's like that.

Danny

For sure!

But the panning issue doesn't seem to be the problem for the OP. Overdubbing while in a mix-down mode is the behavior that needs to be addressed.

M200 series boards only have a 2 button assignment arrangement. There are no dedicated direct stereo buss buttons like the 300 series mixers have. So if we concentrate on what the OP has to work with, he might catch on while he struggles to use it without the manual.

Cheers!

 

[desmond22]

think i got it

SO. After tracking on 1,2,3,4, when i go to track 5,6,7,8 i must use the FLB buttons for monitoring and turn the assign buttons off, is this right? I will try this after work today. After all is recorded, i can then use the normal channels for mixdown?
Im getting it now, thanks a heap you all!!!

 

[The Ghost of FM]

SO. After tracking on 1,2,3,4, when i go to track 5,6,7,8 i must use the FLB buttons for monitoring and turn the assign buttons off, is this right? I will try this after work today. After all is recorded, i can then use the normal channels for mixdown?
Im getting it now, thanks a heap you all!!!

You've almost got it.

The trick is use the FLB system the whole time, right from the beginning, when you're overdubbing and make sure that any parts that have been recorded are not feed back into the recording signal path which caused your problem in the first place.

Set up your mixer like I described a couple of posts back where the TSR8 is plugged into the first 8 channels of the mixer and the remaining channels of the mixer, (9-16), you can use for dedicated recording channels. So for example on channel 16 of the mixer, you could keep your vocal Mic always plugged in and then just use the assignment buttons and the pan control to direct it to the track you want on tape. On channel 15, you could have another Mic plugged in thats used for mic'ing up a guitar cabinet or a direct box or pod feed, drum machine or whatever else you have and keep those all plugged in with their best level and tone settings and that way you don't have to keep resetting levels; you only need to get them routed to the track on tape that you want them to be on. And while all of that is going on, you use the FLB mono cue mix to set up comfortable levels for those instruments along with the recorded tracks.

Then, once you have all of the parts successfully on tape, you can then turn on the tape channels on the mixer to play through PGM 1 & 2 to make a stereo mix down and add in any effects you wish to add like reverb and so on. At that point you'll also want to turn off the other channels on the mixer which aren't in use so that you don't get any feedback or unwanted sound from those idling open Mic's.

Once you get the manual, it will step you though all of what I just wrote in more detail but what I've written out for you here should get you going in the meantime.

Good luck!

Cheers!

 

[desmond22]

sweet

I never thought i would use channels 9 - 16!
Im gonna nut it out. I did attempt to buy a manual from tascam who took my cc details etc, but alas it never came nor was a i charged. Ill try again!