Speed. Faster Faster Faster

[dwarf]

How fast can you go, with just down strokes?

I can get about master of puppets but it starts hurting after a while? up and down its easy but it doesn't really have the same attack.

How does one improve ones speed?

Also with notes I'm kind of the same I can alternate pick very well (used to have a very strick teacher) but I would like to get my speed up as well.

 

[thewanderer24]

If you're just talking picking hand, then practice in bursts with a metronome.

Set the 'nome where you like, but at a reasonably quick tempo. Play 7 bars of quarternotes as evenly as possible. Then do one bar of 16th notes.

Back to quarternotes for 6 bars, then two bars of 16th notes.
then 5 bars of quarternotes, and one of 16th notes.
down to 4 bars of quarter notes and 4 of 16th notes.

Then back up 5 bars of quarternotes and one of 16th notes.
6 and 2 etc.



If you wanna do it well, really pay attention to the 'nome and nailing the quarternotes. As evenly as possible.

Bump up the speed as needed over days, weeks, etc.

Instead of just going q-notes to 16th notes, experiment with substituting different rhythms each time you switch. It's hard to CLEANLY go from 16th notes to quarter note triplets for example...

This exercise really applies to any instrument, not just guitar, and if you switch rhythms around, it'll help a lot more than your speed.

 

[ermghoti]

The hard part, IMO, is missing the string on the upstroke. I play a measure of alternate picking, followed by downstrokes (in half time).

For extra credit, do the same, with upstrokes. I can get MoP to sound pretty good alternate picked, by concentrating on the upstrokes.

 

[silentman]

Not to hijack the thread but...

I've always wondered about the guys that do the alternate picking really fast. Are you forcing the up and down strokes, or are is it just a hand motion thing? I know when you do double stroke rolls on a drum the faster you get the more you have to rely on bounce and hand motion versus forcing each double bounce. Is it the same idea? This is coming from a drummer who has learned guitar out of necessity. Thanks in advance for any comments.

-JV

 

[Codmate]

I've always wondered about the guys that do the alternate picking really fast. Are you forcing the up and down strokes, or are is it just a hand motion thing? I know when you do double stroke rolls on a drum the faster you get the more you have to rely on bounce and hand motion versus forcing each double bounce. Is it the same idea? This is coming from a drummer who has learned guitar out of necessity. Thanks in advance for any comments.

-JV

Alternate picking should be practiced until it becomes natural.

Just doing down or upstrokes sounds very strange and inefficient to me.

I notice that some people pick from the elbow!
Alternate picking is going to be difficult if this is the case - I always pick with tiny motions from the wrist, and sometimes a little squeezing of the fingers.

 

[thewanderer24]

just like anything else musically, if it doesn't feel natural, you need to practice it at really slow tempos first. gaining speed is all about cleaning up your technique, and that's something you have to do going slow.

 

[Outlaws]

If your hnd is getting tired then it is getting stronger. Do it until it hurts and then some. No pain no gain. You'll get it.

 

[metalhead28]

Alternate picking should not feel forced.
The only time that I find alternate picking to feel somewhat forced, is when I am trying to put across the same feel as all downstrokes. Like your example of Master Of Puppets, I wouldn't wear myself out playing that song with downstrokes. I would just alternate pick it. However, if you articulate the upstrokes right you can keep pretty much the same sound as straight down picking. You've just got to pull the pick away from the string and emphasize the upstroke as much as you do the downstroke. It's not as fluid a motion as a normal, smooth style of alternate picking, but you can go alot faster than downstrokes without wearing yourself out.

By the way, all downstrokes feels very forced to me. I've never understood people that were obsessed with downpicking speed. Especially on single note stuff like MOP. I'd rather concentrate on learning the technique to play it cleanly and with the least effort. Now, if you're trying to hit 2 or 3 note muted chords that's a different story.

 

[Tadpui]

Do it until it hurts and then some. No pain no gain.

That's great advice if you want to develop a repetitive stress injury.

Feeling fatigue is one thing, and you're right, its a sign that you're pushing your body and building muscle. But if it hurts, that's your body telling you to stop.

Take frequent breaks and be sure to stretch and warm up before really digging in. Think of your hands like your tubes: warm them up before pushing them to their limits, and they'll last much longer!

 

[TMatt142]

Just down stroke picking in some instances gives you a little bit edgier sound, but why try to play as fast as you can only using downstrokes? Like others have said, it's not efficient at all. Plus alternate picking really smoothes things up. I have some wrist motion but my thumb and index finger move quite a bit. It sounds weird but everyone has their own way of playing I guess.

 

[thewanderer24]

That's great advice if you want to develop a repetitive stress injury.

Feeling fatigue is one thing, and you're right, its a sign that you're pushing your body and building muscle. But if it hurts, that's your body telling you to stop.

Take frequent breaks and be sure to stretch and warm up before really digging in. Think of your hands like your tubes: warm them up before pushing them to their limits, and they'll last much longer!

Yup. In this case, "No Pain, No Gain" is totally asking for Carpal Tunnel, or something similar.

 

[thewanderer24]

Yup. In this case, "No Pain, No Gain" is totally asking for Carpal Tunnel, or something similar.

I'm laughing now. I have a couple bad rep marks now cause you don't wanna admit you gave advice that could actually be harmful to a guy's health?? Go talk to a physical therapist about all the hand and wrist problems they see from people that play stringed instruments that thought they should "play through the pain". I'm one of those guys.

Glad that you got your cool buddy to give me negative rep points, too. What are you guys? 13 years old?

 

[Outlaws]

I'm laughing now. I have a couple bad rep marks now cause you don't wanna admit you gave advice that could actually be harmful to a guy's health?? Go talk to a physical therapist about all the hand and wrist problems they see from people that play stringed instruments that thought they should "play through the pain". I'm one of those guys.

Glad that you got your cool buddy to give me negative rep points, too. What are you guys? 13 years old?

People get carpal tunnel from doing something all day long. Like secretaries and flight attendants. You don't get it from learning to ply down strokes. You WILL get it from playing an instrument 8 hours a day. Just cause your muscle gets tired is because there isn't much muscle there. Now if you play like that for 4-8 hours a day, they ya...you could get injured. But just playing the guitar a lot is subject to that.

 

[thewanderer24]

People get carpal tunnel from doing something all day long. Like secretaries and flight attendants. You don't get it from learning to ply down strokes. You WILL get it from playing an instrument 8 hours a day. Just cause your muscle gets tired is because there isn't much muscle there. Now if you play like that for 4-8 hours a day, they ya...you could get injured. But just playing the guitar a lot is subject to that.

Yes and no.

You're right, learning downstrokes probably isn't gonna do it.

The problem I have is when you say no pain, no gain. Of course you need to build up strength, and that isn't fun. BUT, sometimes pain, especially in joints, is a sign of something wrong. If someone is playing with their hand/wrist in a "bad" position and that's the real reason they're getting pain, than it isn't gonna take 4 hours a day to do real damage if they try to fight through it.

I don't claim to be a dr., but I've sat with the dr. and PT because of the tendonitis I developed in my hands and wrists. Fortunately for me, I caught it in early stages, and managed to change technique and habits (like NOT fighting through the pain), and it's getting better.

I don't wanna get into a pissing contest about this. Maybe I am being a bit melodramatic, as guitar is actually pretty easy in that respect (light strings, low action). But, I have had friends that did serious damage and had to spend real time away from their instruments (as in months) to let themselves heal, and I came close to being in that boat myself.

All I am saying is that if you consistently have pain, figure out why. Just hoping it will go away is a good way to wind up seriously injured.

anyway, I have to get ready for some gigs this weekend. I'm outta here...

 

[legionserial]

You can still get a nasty strain, or some permanent damage from pushing through the pain barrier. When I hit pain I stop. And I go back later. I guess the key is not to overdo it. If you are going towork on something like that, do it in short bursts, once it hurts, Stop. Do something else. Go back later.

Unfortuantely improving speed isnt something you will suddenly notice. Muted downstrokes was always something i had a problem getting fast enough years ago, and I knew that I was going to do myself a serious injury if i played through the pain. One day I was just playing and I was like, "hey, i remember when that used to be a problem, and I've just noticed its not..cool"

 

[Carynsita]

I was wondering if this technique can also work for acoustic guitar? I'm trying to play "Two-headed Boy" and I get tired by the first verse. Also, my pick seems to get "caught-up" in the strings.....

 

[punkin]

For me it seems that speed wants to fall apart during string transition at the picking hand. I've been fooling with some exersizes that seem to clean up my accuracy.

the basic exersize starts by fretting all the strings at say 12. Then alternate picking 1-2-1-3-1-4-1-5-1-6 then back again. Someone mentioned the up stroke being a problem...I think this helps that issue as well. There are a bunch of variations on this. I think that some of the problem starts when we very first learn speed building drills. The all seem to start with same string or close string runs. Right from the start we're conditioned to avoid or dread the big string jumps.

 

[thewanderer24]

For me it seems that speed wants to fall apart during string transition at the picking hand. I've been fooling with some exersizes that seem to clean up my accuracy.

the basic exersize starts by fretting all the strings at say 12. Then alternate picking 1-2-1-3-1-4-1-5-1-6 then back again. Someone mentioned the up stroke being a problem...I think this helps that issue as well. There are a bunch of variations on this. I think that some of the problem starts when we very first learn speed building drills. The all seem to start with same string or close string runs. Right from the start we're conditioned to avoid or dread the big string jumps.

Definitely, you need to practice skipping strings, starting slowly as clean as possible and continually building up speed, but do it CLEAN. I had a teacher give me an exercise that basically has every possible combination of skin skipping. I use it as part of my warm up for my right hand every day. Sorry, but too complicated to draw out in a message.