Why analogue and not digital?

[apl]

I'm sorry, That is a clipped sine wave that approximates a square wave. I notice that it does not have zero rise time and that it has ringing at the clipping points.

If you are going to use an infinite series of sine waves to prove your point, I am going to use a zero rise time to prove mine.

-----------

for those of you who think I am being harsh with APL I ask you (and APL who's cave postings and politics I generally agree with) to reconsider.

This difference in view is the core of the analog vs digital debate in a nutshell.

On one side we have those who say that by taking enough samples of the sound we can recreate it. And or the other are those who say that sound is a continuious process and that sampling loses some of the nuances.

Both sides have their strong points. Digital recording is very good at this point in time. And yet we still have a population of listeners that choose analog over digital.

Some of us must live in the Matrix and cannot tell the difference between a mathematical expression that describes an object and the object its self.

There's nothing in the analog world that has zero rise time and doesn't ring, either.

 

[apl]

What can you do APL? Perhaps you could admit that the theoritical expression that attempts to describe a real-worls sound it not the sound - it is only an approximation.

Maybe I'm just too adept at jumping between the real and theoretical. I'll try to be more clear in future posts.

 

[apl]

Real world:

Analog sounds better.

Digital offers more flexibility.

As I said before, it'd be way cool to have a reel to reel deck in here. Maybe I'll get one and track to it, then dump into Reaper through the Focusrite.

Theory:

Some of you aren't very well versed in it. But that's not taking anything away from your recording or musical chops, so don't sweat it.

 

[evm1024]

Thanks

Maybe I'm just too adept at jumping between the real and theoretical. I'll try to be more clear in future posts.

Thanks, In that case I'll be willing to give you leeway when you make statements that are not exactly true and look for the meaning that you intended.

Welcome to Analog Only where we bash digital in fun and because we really like our decks and the way they sound. (and because it is a digital world and we feel out numbered)

Ethan

(just in case - I'm not the spokesman for anybody)

 

[Dr ZEE]

That's how Newton invented calculus.

It's OK, Apl. I don't expect any "statement of enlightenment" from you. That's a given.
When a farmer drops seeds, he does not expect the soil to turn into field of SunFlowers either. Instead, he just goes home and has a beer.

/later

 

[Dr ZEE]

Some of us must live in the Matrix and cannot tell the difference between a mathematical expression that describes an object and the object its self.

Which is fine with me.
What bothers me greatly is that some of us are trying to outlaw those who can tell the difference by portraing their argument(s) as "unscientific".

 

[Latigo]

fitZ, you can't get the real smell until its rewinding on the 2" 24 track. I just LOVE that smell!
Its in the back on the left side. See it?

Latigo

 

[elly-d]

wow, this thread has been going on for ages.

what would you lot say if i tried to steer it toward slagging electronic instruments like drum machines and synths (namely ones recreating acoustic sounds, strings and piano etc), or are there any (i know there are) analogue only regulars here who slag digital then record drum machines onto 2" tape?

 

[apl]

It's OK, Apl. I don't expect any "statement of enlightenment" from you. That's a given.
When a farmer drops seeds, he does not expect the soil to turn into field of SunFlowers either. Instead, he just goes home and has a beer.

/later

Seriously, Newton came up with the term, "The limit as x approaches infinity..."

That statement changed the world.

I don't get you, Z. Are you just uninterested in the technical and theoretical, and interested only in the results?

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

fitZ, you can't get the real smell until its rewinding on the 2" 24 track.

Can't say that I've had that opportunity. I've only got the 1/2" machines, but just like a cake, thickness doesn't matter as far as the smell. If it smells good...it probably is.

 

[Latigo]

That's what I meant. When it rewinds the breeze really moves the odor.

Latigo

 

[Dr ZEE]

Theory:
Some of you aren't very well versed in it.

Which is normal. I see nothing wrong with it.

I see everything wrong with someone trying to capitalize on it, hoping to score a point or two.
The pathetic part of it is when the spit slaps back to the face of a spitter, the spitter turns his face away, pretending like it's just a part of choreorgaphy of his sexy dance to the beat: "Ah, oh, it's just the time to do my twist on the catwalk, uh-oh - Newton was Cool, uh-eah - I love Needles"

It's ok, apl, as I've said already.
**********
"Are you just uninterested in the technical and theoretical, and interested only in the results?"
Auch, oh!
Keep pushing, it , heh heh , I dig that twist on the catwalk. I gotta try it myself next time I feel like dancing.

/later

 

[_brian_]

Man, if you can't agree on scientific fact, then what hope is there in hitting the main artery of this thread which in essence cannot be answered without delving into the horrible unsteady realms of opinion?

 

[mshilarious]

MSH, welcome to Analog Only. Peace. I really cannot speak for anyone else but I want to welcome you as someone who I hope will hang around and because I think that you have a lot to offer.

Thanks, but I've been here before!

We are in general users of digital as well as analog. We are pro analog for a number of reasons.

There are a LOT of good reasons to be pro analog. Many have been listed, and I argued with almost none of them. Just a choice few, really

OK, I get that some people have been burned by digital hype. There is analog hype too. The number of times Sgt. Peppers was used to promote cassette multitrackers is a good example. I read those ads back in the day, but the main focus there was the FOUR tracks, not the sound quality! And the first cassette multi I used was a real POS. You couldn't punch without a giant audible pop, so you had to leave an empty "punch" track, and be quick on the faders during mixdown. For some reason, the monitoring barely worked at all. It didn't seem to erase real well, so when we recycled a tape, we got a recording with two tracks of backwards Anthrax, mixed in real quiet. That was cool though, because we had four tracks! And I still have those recordings! So I beleive the hype, even though I don't believe it

Things were much better when I bought the 424mkII in 1997. I used it for yeas after I got digital in the studio as a portable recorder, up until I bought the HD24 in 2004.

I think all this stuff is great . . . man, the things you can do these days for no money at all

I spent a lot of time tuning and repairing pipe organs.

OK, you officially need to visit the beach, because what I know of pipe organs is literally almost nothing. And I can't play keyboard.

But I've picked up a few stops cheap, one of them a real beater, but I banged most of the pipes into sounding a note. Next I need to start building windchests . . . when I get some time

I tell ya, I don't get the pipe organ hobbyist crowd, many of them want the real thing, but time and space and money are a problem . . . so they wire a real console for MIDI to drive a sampler? Sure, I'd love a Silbermann in my house too, but I'd rather have 4 real short-scale ranks than a bunch of samples.

So I use MIDI to control the pipes, that's how I get in done with digital So I can compose in notation or with a guitar MIDI controller, or one finger at a time on the keyboard, and get a sequencer to play back the piece in its fully glory

That is, when I ever finish the thing . . .

 

[_brian_]

fitZ, you can't get the real smell until its rewinding on the 2" 24 track. I just LOVE that smell!
Its in the back on the left side. See it?

Latigo

Yep, no set of mathematical algorithms can duplicate that smell that's for sure, but I have heard that some of our digery friends stick their nose up their own ass and squeeze one out just to compensate for the lack of that very smell.

A little joke

 

[evm1024]

MODI controlled tracker, thats the way to go

Thanks, but I've been here before!



SNIP!


OK, you officially need to visit the beach, because what I know of pipe organs is literally almost nothing. And I can't play keyboard.

But I've picked up a few stops cheap, one of them a real beater, but I banged most of the pipes into sounding a note. Next I need to start building windchests . . . when I get some time

I tell ya, I don't get the pipe organ hobbyist crowd, many of them want the real thing, but time and space and money are a problem . . . so they wire a real console for MIDI to drive a sampler? Sure, I'd love a Silbermann in my house too, but I'd rather have 4 real short-scale ranks than a bunch of samples.

So I use MIDI to control the pipes, that's how I get in done with digital So I can compose in notation or with a guitar MIDI controller, or one finger at a time on the keyboard, and get a sequencer to play back the piece in its fully glory

That is, when I ever finish the thing . . .

Have to agree there. just build a tracker action and put some actuators to pull the keyboard trackers under MIDI control. You would get to keep the tarcker voice and feel but still have MIDI.

2 manual plus pedal in a 6 to 8 rank organ would be nice. 16' and 8' stopped diapason for pedal (or perhaps a bordon). A nice reed (I like krumhorns) and 4' flute on swell. Perhaps an 8' open diapason, 4' octave, a 2' flute, a mixture, and a holeflute or gedeckt. Aw shit, the ranks keep growing.

I've intentions for building a tracker of around 10 or 12 stops sometime after returning from a circumnavigation. That won't start for a few years yet. Perhaps 3 till we take off. Just passed my 100 ton masters tests. Now I gotta get the USCG paperwork submitted.

Too many things and too few years.

--Ethan

 

[apl]

Which is normal. I see nothing wrong with it.

I see everything wrong with someone trying to capitalize on it, hoping to score a point or two.

I'm not keepin' score.

The pathetic part of it is when the spit slaps back to the face of a spitter, the spitter turns his face away, pretending like it's just a part of choreorgaphy of his sexy dance to the beat: "Ah, oh, it's just the time to do my twist on the catwalk, uh-oh - Newton was Cool, uh-eah - I love Needles"

It's ok, apl, as I've said already.

I'm not tryin' to spit, either.

"Are you just uninterested in the technical and theoretical, and interested only in the results?"
Auch, oh!
Keep pushing, it , heh heh , I dig that twist on the catwalk. I gotta try it myself next time I feel like dancing.

/later

Hey, that wasn't meant to be an auch. I'm really trying to get to the bottom line with you because once we both understand each other's bottom lines we can look for common points of agreement and build a relationship.

And that's worth way more than scoring or spitting or auching.

 

[mshilarious]

Have to agree there. just build a tracker action and put some actuators to pull the keyboard trackers under MIDI control. You would get to keep the tarcker voice and feel but still have MIDI.

2 manual plus pedal in a 6 to 8 rank organ would be nice. 16' and 8' stopped diapason for pedal (or perhaps a bordon). A nice reed (I like krumhorns) and 4' flute on swell. Perhaps an 8' open diapason, 4' octave, a 2' flute, a mixture, and a holeflute or gedeckt. Aw shit, the ranks keep growing.

Therein lies the trouble. And the cost goes up quite a lot with each rank. I'm doing DE action to KISS, emphasis on the last S. Even that is $6 per pipe, with used magnets and a MIDI driver board. That doesn't count the power supply, but that wasn't very expensive. Strange that the pipes are cheaper than the action!

My space and money budget limits me to 192 pipes, as follows:

4' Flute d'Amour
4' (reed rank not yet acquired)
2' Fifteenth
Unda Maris - uh, sounds a fifth above 2', but labeled at 2' pitch . . . organs confuse me!

Generally all with a 49 note compass. The 8' and certainly 16' are well beyond my capability to pay for and fit! And I've been looking for that reed rank forever, just can't find anything affordable that anyone is willing to ship Soon I might give up and look for a string instead, and maybe lose the top metal octave of the Flute d'Amour and scrape together odd lots of a clarion or something for a fanfare . . . because it would really help to have all the pipes before I start on the windchests . . .

Anyway, I wrote Organ Monkey, which is a MIDI multiplexer app, to maximize use of pipes.
Organ Monkey lets me address each rank dynamically, such that I can construct a mutation or mixture out of a single rank, or across two or more ranks. Those wouldn't be tuned like the real thing would be, but for my budget I think it's rather clever. And just for Dr. Zee, it has a very basic sine wave oscillator which I included just for system diagnosis, but it's silly fun to play with creating a six note mixture with sine waves, and listening to the resulting timbres. I like the bell-like tones of dissonant mixtures (reminds me of those '80s synth patches); I'm looking forward to doing that with the real thing!