Something better than a Hamburg for around $300?

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changeng

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Here's my situation. I have low-end equipment, tho I'm pretty good with stuff and I'm getting professional assignments and need to upgrade stuff F-A-S-T, and of course, am not encumbered with oceans of cash.

I'm running SONAR with a M-Audio delta card, and my main pre has been an ART pro channel. My main mics for vocals have been an MXL v67 and an early Rode NT-1. I can get a good sound on female vocals and decent on male vocals, but my own voice comes out harsh and oversaturated, regardless of settings on the ART, and pulling back on things gives me a tiny signal theeeees beeeeg. My voice is kinda large, sort of a cross between Bowie and Peter Gabriel.

I recently borrowed an ADK Hamburg for a few weeks and the difference between the ADK and the v67 was fairly negligible. That was disappointing, since I've read such glowing reviews on the mic. And yes, I've changed the tubes in the ART (using shuguangs, which have been recommended for the unit but aren't as clear as the EH that came with the unit).

I'm about to upgrade pres - getting a safesound p1, since i like the idea of an "idiot-proof" pre (tho I'm idiot enough to challenge that claim!) and i know that will make a difference.

The question is: will the safesound make enough difference to validate the Hamburg over the v67, or is there a mic in that price range ($100 - 300ish) that will be an obvious difference for clarity (especially in the consonants)? If not, what would be the next step up price-wise mic-wise? I'm looking for warmth and clarity.

help!!!
 
I like the 69ME mic too but it can be a little on the dark side sometimes another option to consider, a ribbon. Shiny Box has some nicely priced options and there are others out there. The market is flooded with inexpensive Chineese stuff right now.
 
thanks guys. Looking into ribbons right now. Any experience with the Cascade Fathead ribbons?
 
Hi. I just got a Hamburg as an upgrade over the V67g too. Like you, I was disappointed with negligible difference (even worse than the 67g, I think.) In fact, I find myself repeatedly going back to the V67g after trying out Rode (NTK, NT1000) and Studio Projects (B1, B3, C1). If you find anything interesting that gives you a better sound, please post again to give us an update.

The pres I'm using are DMP3 and GT "The Brick."
 
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punkin said:
I like the 69ME mic too but it can be a little on the dark side sometimes another option to consider, a ribbon. Shiny Box has some nicely priced options and there are others out there. The market is flooded with inexpensive Chineese stuff right now.
Click to expand...

I found the Hamburg to be kind of dark too........well maybe more neutral than dark. That's probably not an accurate description. I think the Hamburg has a nice candy ass sound.
 
just so people don't mistake an unhyped top end for inferior design, mics like the hamburg, v69, v67 (some of them anyway) etc. are intentionally flatter in the high end and possibly even slightly boosting areas of the midrange because those are very general characteristics of classic old neumann mics (at least a couple of 'em) that so many people have tried to emulate over the years on the cheap. Also, mics like the hamburg and v69 have this lack of high end boost as a direct response to all of the complaints about most other chinese condensor mics that have a real sizzle to them and dont' actually multitrack very well.

For the most part, serious engineers will more often than not go for mics that don't have a huge boost in the high end for most tracking, but possibly go for a mic with a bit of airy boost like a c12 for lead vocals (depending on style - I shouldn't even write this paragraph, it's totally 1 out of 1,000,000 recording possibilities, but I'm trying to make a point here for less experienced engineers so please bear with me).

If you track a lot of stuff with a "harsh" sounding mic such as background vocals, instruments, strings and/or and orchestra, drums etc then you'll end up with a pretty nasty sounding recording all other things being equal. You'll have way too much high end. In my example a harsh mic would be a mic with an increase in output in the 7k-8k region, just a little lower than the "air" region of a c12 (10k-12k I believe, please correct me if I'm wrong about the c12's peak aread, but I'm pretty certain that I'm correct from experience).

Generally therefore a mic that doesn't have that hyped high end will multitrack better, be more useful for layers upon layers of tracks.

Then, for lead vocals, you use whichever mic sits in the mix best for you and compliments your voice the best. For some people that's a c12 (real c12 I mean), for others a sony, for others a good classic neumann, for others a c7, for others a mxl 67 and for others an adk hamburg. Just for reference, not maybe everyone's goto choices, but conceivable all the same.

Out of the mics above, I'd buy a hamburg in a second, 2 of them actually, great mics for lots of uses (I don't own an mxl yet so can't say, but have heard similar good things about the 67s and 69s). I far prefer the sound of that over a typical brighter rode or sharp chinamic sound. I just like the adk sound. It's very musical, doesn't artificially make your consonants extra emplified, and sounds magical in certain contexts, something you just don't find with many other chinese mics (yes, adk hamburg parts come from china, as do v67 v69 et al, even if assembled elsewhere).

If you WANT more consonants, by all means, purchase an apex 435 (or 50 similar siblings) and have at 'er. Good mics, perfect for what you want, only cost like $55 new in canada. Good on guitar (both cabs and acoustic) as well. Not my fav vocal mic but easily eq'd into a great vocal mic if you're experienced. If you have no money you can make almost anything sound amazing if you know what you're doing, but at least something like a 435 is still a decent starting point. But it doesn't compare even slightly to a hamburg - very different quality of output, much more accurate and musical sound out of the adk than the apex.

I'm only using mics I really know well as references here, nobody mention apex mics so I'm just saying that they epitomize the other chinese mics that we're talking about here, so they're good examples, and I try to only talk about what I actually know so I'm using real world examples. Replace 435 with the mxl 900 series, sp c series, or similar of your choice (besides a couple that don't fit into that pattern). replace 460 with the chinese tube multipattern condensor of your choice (again besides a couple that don't fit into that pattern).

This info is just posted to help clarify things for some newbies, I hate it when people who aren't experienced start quoting what others say even if it's "this mic sucks" sort of stuff, when probably the mic in question is just fine but doesn't sound like the person wants or just isn't being judged by important criterea (such as how does it work in a full band mix with lots of overtracked parts).

Cheers,
Don
 
what about buying another pre-amp instead of a mic? it could really change the sound also...
 
They're all pretty much the same in that price range. Wouldn't even bother.

As for the "next step up" ... there's really only one right answer: Whatever sounds better with your voice. I realize that's not very specific, but frankly, something that might sound "warm" and "clear" (whatever that means in your world) on my voice might sound harsh and unbearable on yours and vice-versa.

You just mentioned yourself that you're getting varying results depending on who you're recording, and that your voice is presenting different challenges than other people you're working with. Gee, do you think that might be telling you something? :D

.
 
I'm with Andrew. Get the preamp upgrade and try the Hamburg again.
I'm am also very interested in your results with the P-1. Let us know.
 
Big Kenny said:
Shure sm7....worth a shot
Click to expand...


Agreed. A good dynamic will be much less harsh on vox, especially compared to most of the Chinese LDC's. Check out the sm7, EV re20, or even just a shure sm58. I routinely choose a 57 over my chinese mics for most of the rock bands I record.
 
how about and SE2200a? i personally love that mic as a vocal mic..
 
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