Solid State/Tube Overdrive...

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GuitarChimp

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This is kind of a stupid question but I don't really know much on how tubes and solid states work and get confused when people talk about overdrive.

On tubes when you turn them up on their clean channel at the higher volumes do they eventually start to distort naturally? Meaning you really can't play higher volumes clean?

Conversely on Solid States when you crank them up what happens? I have a little 15 and on volume 10 it starts poping and making awfull crunchy farting noises. Is this the difference, and what people talk about when they are talking about harmonic clipping and stuff?

Also, is this the ONLY difference? I read some web pages and they were talking about Tubes and Transistors saying that if they both run at the same volume, below their clipping level they shouldn't sound any different (other than the fact they are made differently).

Some clarification would be hugely appreciated!
Thanks
 
Or am I just confused with the whole clipping thing? When you press the overdrive channel on your tube or solid state does that drive the sound wave into clipping? Will the tube produce those nice harmonics on the overdrive channel, and solid state not? When I read it I thought they were talking about when the volume is cranked up to saturation.
 
A lot of this stuff depends solely on the design and how it's implemented . . . as well as how much headroom the piece of gear in question has, what role the tube plays, etc.

Also depends on what kind of gear you're refering to. Tube guitar amps behave a lot differently than tube compressors, mic pres, or EQ for that matter.

It's not really a dumb question at all, but you might get better answers if you can try to be a little more specific & detailed with your question.
 
I guess what I meant by stupid question is that after reading all this about even and odd harmonics, I still don't quite understand what overdriving a tube amp is.

Like I said, I play a little squier 15watt amp right now, and when I crank the volume to 10 it breaks up and pops really un naturally. Is this a solid state amp being overdriven and clipping? Conversly if it were a tube amp being cranked to the same volume, would the overdriven popping sound be a pleasant distortion?
 
Diference

Hi!

First:
Any rack will clip on some point. Guitar *tube amps are made to clip to make their sound. In tube amp it happen when signal is to strong for amp stage and it gets out of linear amplification, but in solid state is used an other method. in general it should sound the same, but it dosen't - tube sounds better. An other thing tubes make way less nose (hiss) than solid state, and they sound more mild. It is about phisics how devices work. So if you use solid state amp at cliping point it will give out a lot of noise and wont sound as good as tube. an other hing cheep tube amp wont sound better than average solid. wnat more info read AX84 project: there is a lot of good info, and even for dummies in electronics. :)

Take care!
Ansius

P.S.
Good solid state distorion is in Ibanez TS-9 / 808 pedals. better use efect pedal than bad amp!
 
The old distortion stomp boxes were really nothin' more than a pair of back to back diodes clipping and cutting off the top of the wave... like flat topping, and kind of looks like an old beat up square wave on a scope... lol.
 
chessrock said:
Also depends on what kind of gear you're refering to. Tube guitar amps behave a lot differently than tube compressors, mic pres, or EQ for that matter.
Click to expand...

Chess, could you elaborate on that point a little? I always thought the thing that made tube stuff desirable was the even order harmonic distortion, which can be a pleasant thing, just in some applications (like guitar amps) it's much more pronounced. Are you saying that this is not what's involved in the other applications, such as compression and eq? What makes a tube circuit a potentially good thing in those situations? :confused:
 
I'm not really an expert on this stuff, so take what I say with a grain. All I know is that the role of the tube isn't always to be overdriven or to create distortion.

Sometimes the tube comes after a solid state stage, so you'll wind up clipping the previous stage way before you ever get to any level of distortion from the tube. Sometimes the tube is just stuck in the audio path for no real reason or benefit -- or it's operating under optimal voltage in a "starved plate" kind of deal -- which again, is a different idea as far as I know.
 
If you are getting a popping sound out of your amp when you crank it, it is probably broken. The difference in sound between even and odd order harmonics is that one sounds good and the other one sounds harsh.
Go down to a music store and plug into a tube amp and set the preamp gain on 10. Now you are overdriving the amp, take notice of the sound. Now plug into a solid state amp, do the same thing. Notice how 1 dimentional it sounds in comparison.
 
Also, keep in mind that there is a difference between pre-amp tube, and power tube distortion / harmonics. A NON master volume design relies on the power tubes being pushed hard before they will begin to distort. A Master-volume amp on the other hand will allow you to turn up the pre amp gain, achieving your distortion in the preamp stage, and using the Master as an over-all volume control. Each type sounds different, and has it's own army of backers. One thing that transistors don't do nearly as well as tubes, is their response to pick attack. The difference between lightly hitting a string or really digging in is blatant with a tube amp...transistors just dont have the same response. Just my .02 :)
 
Well, I don't really comprehend all the technobabble either, but in my real world- Alll amps will distort if driven hard enough. Sometimes this sounds good, and opinions differ about what sounds good. Tube amps often distort at lower volumes than solid state amps, but are a lot more likely to sound good when they do it.
As far as your question- does that mean you cant get clean sound at high volumes? Yes. It's a guitar amp. It distorts on purpose, and how it does that defines the character of the amp. You want clean and loud? That is why God made power amplifiers and PA cabs. Turn the amp down. Put a mic in front of it, even a good condenser sometimes. The nice PA will make it as loud as the room will allow before feedback.
Guitar amps are often valued for their ability to distort and sound good at low volumes. And regarding solid state amps or amp modelers that try to copy that distortion of that tube amp, many of them sound very good, but they don't sound like a tube amp distorting- yet.-Richie
 
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