Software Pirating is compeletly out of hand

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MadAudio said:
If you had bought DavidK's awesome CD like I did, you'd know he's not talking shit. His home-recorded disc is excellent both in content and production.

Oh wait, you'd rather download it for free anyway, right? :rolleyes:

And I'm not a religious person by any means, but I think you really need some spiritual guidance. And you're not going to get it as long as you continue to play the "good guy against the wicked system" card. You're just tossing paper tigers up in here AFAIC. Get a clue.

Welcome to my ignore list, thief. Bye-bye........

I'll miss you... We'll always have Paris. :o


Spirtual guidence I need not. Just cause you don't agree doesn't mean I'm lost. And I never said anything about his work. Just his bullshiting to make what I was assuming was a somewhat sarcastic comment.

mrT said:
There is a lot of crap now because it's easier and cheaper to record now than ever before. But it only makes the truely well done work stand out that much more.

I just don't think that paying for the software has any relevance to the quality of the product or engineer. I'm sure plenty of people a lot better known than DavidK use pirated software.
 
There is some truth to the fact that many of the people stealing software also can't use it well. However, it does cut into business both at the working studio end, and at the software manufacturers end.

I also say more power to Bill Gates. This is America where we have the right to be as rich as we can get.

Luckily, most people that steal software are also idiots in other aspects of their life. I often get much enjoyment out of putting them in their place and occasionally even slapping those idiots around for a while.

I am with you on this issue though MadAudio. Those of us that have bought our tools respect them, learn to use them and put them to good work. Those that haven't most always don't, and no matter what they will continue to defend it. In fact they often try to pretend that somehow they are doing a good thing by doing it. It's sad that those people can't at least grow enough balls to admit that it is wrong yet they still do it anyhow. At least then I could have some sort of respect for them for standing up for themselves instead of whining and crying and making excuses like little bitches.

For MrT.... just to clarify, this was not directled solely at you, but make no mistake, you are definately included in that list so please feel free to take it personally.
 
xstatic said:
For MrT.... just to clarify, this was not directled solely at you, but make no mistake, you are definately included in that list so please feel free to take it personally.

I'm cool man. You guys can jerk each other off for buying software all you want. It's just not my scene.

and paying doesn't make your stuff better. That's just a weak argument based on pure assumption and nothing else.

EDIT: Actually I think there might be something about an ego involved too. But that was probbably what brought about the assumptions.
 
And I bet a whole lot more people agree with me than you guys. They are just pussies. :D
 
I wish Reaper and other free software was around when I started.

I started on WavePad, it's not even a multi-track. Manually copying/pasting into the right position of the wave took some time. I didn't even know about plug-ins.

So don't talk about freeware being crap. Audacity, Reaper, are all good software with everything you need to produce quality music.

Pirates just think that having the most expensive software/plug-ins will do the work for them. And that's why their music sucks.
 
mrT said:
SO not only are you moraly superior to those who use cracked software but you are also statistically known to be more proficient at your craft for having paid the money for the it?

Yup, thats about it. Morally Superior? Nah. Technically? Sure, we plopped down some money, we are going to learn to use the product. Its an investment. I know every lil trick in SONAR, I have been using it for years and have access to support, patch fixes and the software actually works.
 
danny.guitar said:
So don't talk about freeware being crap. Audacity, Reaper, are all good software with everything you need to produce quality music.

.

Not only that, but legit free software is everywhere. Buy a soundcard, it has software. I have cubasis, Ableton live etc and I havent even messed with them. They were free, they came with various hardware.
 
cortexx said:
Not to mention that your ISP could soon be charging you per MP3 for each free song you download ( yes it's very easy for your ISP to minitor exactly what your downloading ). This charge will end up on your monthly internet bill :) . Personally i think it's a great idea as much of this cash is planned to go directly to artists ( or that's the intention ).

That sounds interesting...do you have any info on this? It would be a little creepy knowing I'm being tracked, but it would be pretty handy for downloading songs; instead of having to give out my credit card on the intranets in order to buy a $.99 song. Although if it uses the metadata in an mp3 to track it, it isn't very hard to change that stuff.
 
My arguments for paying for software cewrtainly may not be perfect. However, the point I have tried to make is that they do not have to be since downloading software for free that you are supposed to pay for is WRONG!

I will however concede one point in the interest of being open minded.... Buying your software is certainly no guarantee that you will know how to use it better than someone else who stole it or that you will produce better work than those people. However, in general, those people who steal the software also generally have other giant character flaws that show up in other places in their lives and in their work. The lack of drive that keeps someone form actually working hard to acheive goals also typically shows in most other things they are involved in as well. There is no excuse... Anyone can get the stuff legally if they really wanted. If you can get the rest of your stuff, you can also get your software through proper channels as well.

In my opinion, anyone who thinks they have the right to steal software or any other intellectual property is disrespecting the industry and is the direct cause of so many of the negative things that happen now in the industry. Those people are a bunch of whiny ass little lamers and deserve everything they get be it personal justice or legal justice.
 
So MrT, following your logic, you would find it OK to rape a woman if she were passed out because she would never know and would not be out anything? I mean come on... no one would ever know, she wouldn't miss that part of her life or her dignity since she was already out cold... Is this who you are?
 
xstatic said:
Amazing how people have no sense of right or wrong when it comes to software. Software companies may not actually LOSE money when someone pirates their program, but they are losing the right to make money and be compensated for their work. This would be like someone going in and changing the name on your time card to take your check from your work. You may not have LOST something, because you did not have it yet, but you lost the ability to collect that money. I am pretty sure that would piss you off. The bottom line is that analogy may not be the best but so what.... I should not need an analogy to tell someone that p[iracy is wrong. Hell, I should not even need to tell you.

THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION FOR STEALING SOFTWARE. IT IS WRONG, ALWAYS HAS BEEN, ALWAYS WILL BE.

For MrT, NOTHING you have said in defense of software piracy has been releveant or realistic. If everybody downloaded and stole the software then no software companies would be left. Every time that you download software you are costing me, the company and its employees money. If you can't see that fine. If you want to learn how this chain works, feel free to come take something of mine. You will quickly learn how to not take things that are not yours.

:confused:

Explain the justification for software prices increasing historically while hardware prices descrease.

Twenty years ago, a decent computer (PC-XT with 20Mb HD and EGA video) cost $2500+. Lotus 1-2-3 probably ran you $400 and Windows 1.0 was $100.

Today, a decent computer costs $500. Microsoft Office costs $400 and Windows XP Pro (retail) is $199. Heck, you have to fork out $800 for Cubase 4 today! That's probably more than the hardare it runs on!

That means software costs 4x as much as it did in 1986 when compared to the hardware it is installed on.

Sounds like pure corporate greed on the part of software companies. Microsoft's total net worth would corroborate this theory. Either that or somehow they have their own inflation rate they use which doesn't apply to everyone else (except for the oil companies).

Sounds like software companies need a dose of real world economics

Give me a break. And you wonder why people pirate software? The way I look at it, they deserve a dose of reality and let natural selection (or a market econome)weed out the greedy ones.
 
This thread is getting out of hand.

Pretty much anybody who uses pirated software cannot be convinced that it's wrong. Otherwise, they wouldn't use it. I suppose there are a few who use pirated stuff who know its wrong deep down inside but do it anyway, but its probably rare.

Maybe eventually law enforcement will have the technology to really crack down on pirated software and those who use it will be punished for their crimes, but until then, it really doesn't do us any good to get into a pissing match with a "pirate" about it.

Let's all just try and make some good music, and if your conscience is trying to tell you something, listen to it.

And yes, xstatic, at some level, that is who MrT is, whether he realizes it or not. I'm going to go out on a limb and say he probably wouldn't rape that girl, but looking at other actions in his life wouldn't lead one to that assumption.

And on another completely random note, MrT, I'm very sorry that your experience with church has led you to believe anything in this thread is like "church". Church, or Christianity, would definitely take a completely different perspective on issues like these than has been presented in this thread, but that's a totally different discussion.

Back on topic - MrT, you've just got to understand that your actions are extremely insulting to those who pay for their software, and that's the perspective they're coming from. Kind of like you just punched them in the face, then kicked them in the balls, then expected them to feel like its just fine, even normal and accepted behavior. I'm not calling you a thief or anything like that, just saying how it feels in their/our shoes. Just my 2 cents.
 
The problem is there is not much competition for Windows. They can charge whatever the market will bear, it apparently it will bear a lot. I've given them a lot of money recently buying 3 copies of XP - but I really can't see getting Vista. It's just gonna slow my hardware down and make me want to upgrade. Hopefully I can make the switch to Linux...

There is a lot more competition in the DAW market though...and prices are still high probably because the companies are smaller and can't take advantage of economies of scale, etc. I suppose...


CP
 
crankypants said:
The problem is there is not much competition for Windows. They can charge whatever the market will bear, it apparently it will bear a lot. I've given them a lot of money recently buying 3 copies of XP - but I really can't see getting Vista. It's just gonna slow my hardware down and make me want to upgrade. Hopefully I can make the switch to Linux...

There is a lot more competition in the DAW market though...and prices are still high probably because the companies are smaller and can't take advantage of economies of scale, etc. I suppose...


CP

I think I'll switch over to OS X before I use Vista.
 
Do you know that if you are required to have a software audit that you must have an itemised invoice and that is ALL that is acceptable. You can have the original disks and packaging (even if you registered it with the company). If you don't you face up to a $150,000 fine for EACH violation. all courtesy of the BSA. And I bet every one of you that bashed me has in some way "pirated" software. If you ever installed a program on two computers. gotten a new computer and trasnfered software... the list is a lot longer than you think. and you can do it EVEN if you bought the software in the first place. Well... so long as you buy it first hand. If you buy it second hand or through eBay the BSA still considers it an illegal copy of the software. read up on them. It might change your mind about the greed that is really behind this. It's not all about "intellectual property." That should just mean that no-one should be able to undercut their sales by taking their product and selling it themselves. I don't think it's wrong if they buy it and decide to GIVE me a copy. No money involved should = fair use.

And I guess technically since I never had to go through "click-through-license" that I never Broke any contract or even agreed to abide by the terms of the liscence myself. The only one that is legally accountable is the person who cracked it and gave it too me. But then again I would be using an altered version of the software and I'm not too sure that the infringment would apply?

Point is being against piracy is good for business on more than one level for the software companies. and just because warez cost them money (which it very well might) does not mean that I agree with or abide by their practices. It's not my fault that they made a product so easily obtainable
 
and software piracy and rape have NOTHING in common. I know you don't like my opinons but keep yours realistic. And no, I am not a rapist. Nor am I as morally "flawed" as you all seem to think. Actually you guys don't know me at all. You've only read some select opinoins I wrote in a forum. If it makes you feel better than me to say that I'm a dirty immoral software pirate(no different than a rapist) whatever then go ahead. It's the internet and you still have no life. :p
 
mrT said:
It's not all about "intellectual property." That should just mean that no-one should be able to undercut their sales by taking their product and selling it themselves. I don't think it's wrong if they buy it and decide to GIVE me a copy. No money involved should = fair use.

Give me a break. If you are not the Intellectual Property Owner (or authorized by him/her), you do not have the right to distribute the intellectual property in any way; for free or for profit. Think about it. If that was perfectly acceptable behavior, no one would ever pay money for software, no one would bother making software, and everyone would be worse off. And about the software costs rising compared to the hardware, could it be because of the increase of pirating? It certainly is easier now than it was 10 years ago, but I guess according to mr. t the acceptability of stealing a product is in direct relation to how easy it is to do so. If you can't afford the Rolls Royce of recording software($800 or whatever), pretty much all the software manufacturers have the Kia option available to you at a lower cost with enough functionality for most home recorders.
 
My big problem is that software companies charge higher and higher prices and use annoying dongles which punish the people who actually buy the software. People are going to crack it anyway, why bother with the dongle?

That being said, software companies have little to blame but themselves. It's not that their screwing the consumer, it's that they are missing the opportunity.

In my opinion, there's a lot of missed opportunities:

Modular Upgrades - Okay, let's say that I want to record and playback audio with basic functions. A company ought to sell a stable and efficient audio tracking software for $100, something easily manageable by most people. But then I realize I need better plugins. Now I have the ability to buy plugins from whomever, but if I were a smart manufacturer, I might sell little plugin packs for my own software for $100. I'd sell MIDI functionality for $100. I'd sell instrument packs for $100. That way people who wouldn't buy my software at $400 because they wouldn't use the plugins and instruments would buy it at $100. And people who need the additionally functionality can buy it.

Unified Software - Kind of tags on to my last point, but it seems pretty inefficient to manage Cubase LE, Cubase SE, Cubase SX, Cubase 4, Cubase 4 Studio, on down the line. They should all run on the same engine. If there's dramatically different features, go ahead and cripple/remove them from the software, but not to a dramatic extent. For example, why should I be limited to 12 busses on Logic Express when I can have unlimited at Pro? There's no difference in coding, it's just a block. But this efficiency in software will lower development costs, allowing you to undercut the competition's prices and forcing them to do the same.

Copy Protection - Some people will steal software. If you want to have a dongle to save serial number and installation info, that's great, but don't require it to run. It really ticks me off that I can't just grab and go a MacBook and run Logic Pro, Waves, URS, etc...I need a half dozen dongles. Again, you are only punishing the people who bought the software.

Proprietary Hardware - A great way to prevent software theft, but a great way to kill your software. Ask Sony about their proprietary format track record...Betamax, Minidisc, SACD...they don't learn and they always have cool stuff that sucks to use because it never gets adopted.

Upgrade Paths - First off, if you subscribe to my efficiency notion, you will need fewer upgrades because initial development goes into stability and you don't have to patch it up as often. It's like OSX...development goes into new features, not stability patches.
But the upgrade prices are a good notion...they could be better. First off, if you subscribe to my modular notion, you won't have to update your audio engine, interface, plugins, instruments, MIDI, all at once. This would lower upgrade costs because you only have to upgrade what you use. So if your initial DAW costs $100, a major upgrade would cost $25. And each upgrade set would be $25.
Furthermore, another reservation is "what if a new one comes out?" I say offer subscription-based upgrades...free upgrades for the first six months, then $50 a year, or something like that. Free patches for your version through production cycle.

Long story short, these companies are using and outdated business model. Yes, packaging works great for some things, but not when it's so easy to steal them. The Line 6 POD xt is a great model to follow...you buy the initial stuff which has a little bit of everything. Then you load in model "packs" that add functionality. The core code actually embraces the crippled code and allows you the flexibility to buy what you need, which actually increases overall revenues. And maybe you offer little bundles, Home, Studio, and Pro with a little discount for having all the bundles.
 
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