Snare rattle

CaptGoldenEars

CaptGoldenEars

New member
What might be the best way to stop or at least minimize snare rattle in a live recording? We use partitions and record live, but when it gets loud that snare really rattles, especially when the bass player gets cooking. I've had the drummer tighten it up a little and if we put a piece of foam underneath it, it loses it's snap. Is their a product, some tricks or even voodoo? I'm frustrated with this.
 
I read up on voodoo for dummies and the only thing I came away with is drums to provoke the walking dead.
Don't think it will help much. :D
 
Tell that to the zombies!
That's why most people have different snares, some for live and some for recording.

Can your drummer borrow or purchase an other one?
 
Snares buzz. That's what they do. Without that buzz it won't be a snare, as you learned from trying to muffle it. When something gets close to the natural frequency of the snare, it stars buzzing. You can try tuning it out, but it's just gonna buzz from some other note at some other point, and you'll probably kill the sound of the snare. If you're recording truly live, as in you're all in one room with no gobos or partitions, you're doomed to having snare buzz. Get the amps away from the drums or get over it.
 
Greg_L said:
Snares buzz. That's what they do. Without that buzz it won't be a snare, as you learned from trying to muffle it. When something gets close to the natural frequency of the snare, it stars buzzing. You can try tuning it out, but it's just gonna buzz from some other note at some other point, and you'll probably kill the sound of the snare. If you're recording truly live, as in you're all in one room with no gobos or partitions, you're doomed to having snare buzz. Get the amps away from the drums or get over it.
Click to expand...

We record live as i stated. Also we are using partitions as i posted. We just play fairly loud. I'm waiting for someone to chime in who has solved this problem or at least has dealt with it with reasonable results. I'll get over it when i'm satisfied with the end result; a clean live recording. It's always something.
 
CaptGoldenEars said:
We just play fairly loud. .
Click to expand...

Everyone does. Is it possible to put the amps in another room maybe? Why are you hellbent on recording live? What if you record a live scratch track as a guide and go back in and have everyone record their parts seperately? That would probably sound much better anyway.
 
I usually don't like saying this, but you could try a gate on the snare mic. It'll still rattle, but it shouldn't get onto your recording. Well, maybe if you get bleed from the toms or something. But then you might spend a long time finding the right gate that doesn't make you cringe. And your ghost notes might get lost in the shuffle. Hmmm, you did say you play loud, and (nothing personal) that usually doesn't involve grace notes or ghost notes. Maybe set the gate threshold low enough to let ghost notes through, but not the snare rattle? Just an idea, and maybe a poor one, but an idea anyway.
 
Greg_L said:
Everyone does. Is it possible to put the amps in another room maybe? Why are you hellbent on recording live? What if you record a live scratch track as a guide and go back in and have everyone record their parts seperately? That would probably sound much better anyway.
Click to expand...

Yes we are hell bent on recording live. We play live and that is our whole deal. Classic rock and we keep it very simple. Only overdubbing vocals and percussion. I even track most of my solos live. Putting the amps in another room would mean headphones and none of us wants to do that. I guess what i'm getting at is this - Is there any way to actually deal with the snare itself? A tuning method or technique? Ranjam suggested a gate but the buzz will still get into the overheads. When i stuck a small piece of foam between the snare and it's stand, it was much quieter and i didn't mind the playback, but our drummer hated it and said he couldn't play on a 'half dead snare'. Overall i'm pleased with our recordings and the only thing i really need to clean up is the damn snare! Oh yes, one more thing, he has three different snares for different songs and styles and they pretty much all buzz and rattle. Now when we play a slow blues i kind of like the noise but....well there you go.
 
CaptGoldenEars said:
Putting the amps in another room would mean headphones and none of us wants to do that.
Click to expand...

Why not? Its a reasonable solution to your problem, and gives you much better isolation between instruments whilst still allowing you to "do your live thing".
 
Okay, so you don't want to track individually, you don't want to use headphones, you don't want to move amps, you don't want to turn down.......if you're that hardheaded, deal with the snare buzz. It's gonna buzz, and you can't stop it. All snares buzz. What is it about doing the parts individually that turns you off? Unless you have a stellar space with lots of room, you're not gonna defeat the buzzing snare. I'm betting yall are trying to track in what's basically nothing more than a jam room. That's fine if you're limited on space, but like you're noticing, the snare is gonna buzz. If yall are good, tracking your parts individually will sound great. That whole "grooving off eachother" shit is a myth. Good performers don't need that nonsense.
 
Greg_L said:
That whole "grooving off eachother" shit is a myth.
Click to expand...

Maybe in your genre of music, but in jazz/improv "grooving off each other" is a very really thing.

Cap'n Crunch - Greg is right on all other accounts though. If you're not willing to make a "compromise" you're either going to have to find a new room or deal with it.

Or learn voodoo.
 
Greg_L said:
Okay, so you don't want to track individually, you don't want to use headphones, you don't want to move amps, you don't want to turn down.......if you're that hardheaded, deal with the snare buzz. It's gonna buzz, and you can't stop it. All snares buzz. What is it about doing the parts individually that turns you off? Unless you have a stellar space with lots of room, you're not gonna defeat the buzzing snare. I'm betting yall are trying to track in what's basically nothing more than a jam room. That's fine if you're limited on space, but like you're noticing, the snare is gonna buzz. If yall are good, tracking your parts individually will sound great. That whole "grooving off eachother" shit is a myth. Good performers don't need that nonsense.
Click to expand...

We have a large room, and we all hate headphones. It ruins the vibe. And i can't believe YOU believe "That whole "grooving off each other" shit is a myth". Now i can never take you seriously. We are a live band.
 
CaptGoldenEars said:
Now i can never take you seriously.
Click to expand...

Hey that's fine. I'll still sleep like a baby tonight and every other night. I've played live in bands for over 20 years. I know how it goes. I can also sit down and track parts by themselves. I know how that goes. I've also listened to my snare buzz during practices, and I know how that goes. If you don't wanna at least try the things that can and probably will minimize your snare buzz problem, then you're either scared or lazy. Maybe both? The whole "we're a live band" thing is a crutch. Just about every band is a live band. What the fuck does that even mean anyway? If you are in a band, you play live. How can you be in a band and not be a live band? Having an audience is irrelevant. If you play with a group of other people at the same time, you are a live band. Pointing that out like it's some medal of honor is retarded. And "hating headphones" is even more retarded. You're romanticizing the act of playing in a band. Even the livest of bands, like The Who and Grateful Dead, can sit in a studio and track their parts individually. If you're interested in making a good recording, that might be what you have to do.
 
Greg_L said:
Hey that's fine. I'll still sleep like a baby tonight and every other night. I've played live in bands for over 20 years. I know how it goes. I can also sit down and track parts by themselves. I know how that goes. I've also listened to my snare buzz during practices, and I know how that goes. If you don't wanna at least try the things that can and probably will minimize your snare buzz problem, then you're either scared or lazy. Maybe both? The whole "we're a live band" thing is a crutch. Just about every band is a live band. What the fuck does that even mean anyway? If you are in a band, you play live. How can you be in a band and not be a live band? Having an audience is irrelevant. If you play with a group of other people at the same time, you are a live band. Pointing that out like it's some medal of honor is retarded. And "hating headphones" is even more retarded. You're romanticizing the act of playing in a band. Even the livest of bands, like The Who and Grateful Dead, can sit in a studio and track their parts individually. If you're interested in making a good recording, that might be what you have to do.
Click to expand...

You are missing the point and getting defensive. We play live okay? As in i hate doing overdubbs, i think it's like masturbating. I take great care and pride in doing my home work and playing as well as i can WITHOUT tricks. One of my specialties is to play two parts at once, open ringing notes with bass movement and melody. I don't need overdubbs buddy! I'm asking DRUMMERS out there what have they done about this problem. It's a reasonable question and with as many who check in here, SOMEONE will have a good suggestion. My drummer doesn't seem to care much but i'm the one with all the recording equipment and am serious about making a good CD. Live is live and anything goes, but trying capture a great live performance with studio sound is what i'm after. Performance, happy mistakes and that magical take is what we are after. Don't get bent out of shape dude, it's only RnR.
 
I'm not bent at all, and I'm primarily a DRUMMER. I record drums literally all the time. I gave you several viable solutions. You're the one stuck in a fanatsy land of groove and vibe. But hey, knock yourself out. Get that "vibe" on tape. :laughings: :laughings:

Good luck.
 
rprnj said:
Maybe in your genre of music, but in jazz/improv "grooving off each other" is a very really thing.
Click to expand...

In a live setting, yes... I've played keys in a combo and don't claim to be an expert or be very good at it, but I understand about taking cues off each other, helping develop ideas during improv, working together, etc, but if you want to capture that kind of spontaneity then you do a live recording. Live recordings can be great from an audio point of view, but at the same time you can't get hung about perfection; things like snare rattle, etc. That happens in the room whilst you're 'grooving' live - you want to capture what's happening in the room - you live with it.

But...

Live is live and anything goes, but trying capture a great live performance with studio sound is what i'm after
Click to expand...

Well, whatever they say, it sounds like the OP wants something a bit more than a live recording. When you want to capture a performance in this way (that step up from a live) then then you will have worked on it together for a while and (for the purposes of the recording) probably should have agreed on certain things so you know what is happening where, etc. That doesn't mean you can't improvise, but you do so within a structure and within a given direction. You develop your "script" from all your ideas and you practice it.

There's nothing wrong with sacrificing a bit of freedom and practicing playing within more rigid boundaries for the purpose of a good recording... regardless of how "free" you're playing is whilst you're recording, once its recorded its fairly set in stone. The person listening won't care if you maybe rehearsed that spontaneous-sounding (but not really) transition a few times to get it spot on in the recording.


Anyway, this guy manages to "groove off his own vibe" just fine...





But that is completely going off the point...

The OP asked how to solve / work around the snare rattle. Suggestions have been made but rejected.

How do headphones "ruin your vibe"? You can still hear each... you can still see each other... get a good headphone mix going and it can give you better cues than the sound in the room (whilst still allowing you all to play dynamically).
 
mattr said:
In a live setting, yes... I've played keys in a combo and don't claim to be an expert or be very good at it, but I understand about taking cues off each other, helping develop ideas during improv, working together, etc, but if you want to capture that kind of spontaneity then you do a live recording. Live recordings can be great from an audio point of view, but at the same time you can't get hung about perfection; things like snare rattle, etc. That happens in the room whilst you're 'grooving' live - you want to capture what's happening in the room - you live with it.
Click to expand...

Very very true. Snare rattle just adds character anyway :) And technically...if you're trying to capture "that moment" the snare rattle contributes (whether subconsciously or not ) to that moment.

The Grateful Dead's 'Anthem of the Sun' does a great job of piecing together live recordings and studio work and never once does it even come close to feeling limited or boxed in.
 
So, I'm guessing when your drummer has his snare tuned to his liking and you guys play out somewhere, it buzzes and everyone accepts because it is how you guys sound live or, for lack of a better term, your 'vibe' .

Now you want to capture the exact same vibe on CD but don't want that particular portion. But you don't want to change anything else to get rid of it. Hmmmm...? :rolleyes:

I guess I'm wondering what is so offensive about the snare buzz in recording live that is not offensive in playing live?

You've been given plenty of knowledgeable advice by plenty of talented people, but you keep trying to figure out a way to go swimming without going near the water... :confused:

Essentially, it boils down to this: The snare buzzes because it is resonating with another instrument or instruments at frequencies they share. It's not rocket science.

You can change the frequencies of these instruments (voila! problem solved!), isolate the instruments from each other (voila! problem solved!), or correct it in the digital realm with gates, triggers, etc. (voila! problem solved!).

There is no magic wand you can wave that will let you have your cake and eat it too.

You might want to pick a copy of this month's 'Recording' magazine as there's a great article about a band recording their 2nd CD the way you are wanting to... All live in the same room with minimum overdubs... Including vocals.

It can be done but you're going to have to accept that the sound you like playing live is going to be the same sound that gets recorded... Warts, bleed, buzz and all.
 
If the buzz is that loud that overheads are picking it up.... :eek:. Try gates anyway, and if need be, gate everything. Try hyper cardioid mics. Try tuning your drums a little differently, especially the snare. Try tightening the snare wires. Try isolating the snare drum from the snare stand with some thick foam. Something to 'decouple' the snare from being 'coupled' to the floor. Try running the bass with a little less..... bass. Have him try 10" speakers instead of 15" speakers (just a guess). Whatever it takes. Most drummers I know tune very differently for recording. Ringo used to say at first he felt like he was playing bowls of pudding, and called them pudding drums, because they were tuned so low and had dish towels on top of the heads deadening them even further. Absolutely no rebound. He still sounded pretty good on record. ;)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top