Snare Question??

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bohunk06

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I am getting a lot of ring out of my snare and it is definitely picking up on my recordings. This is somewhat of a new problem... I have been recording for years and don't remember this in the past. So I have no idea what I am doing now that is causing it. I read somewhere that tuning a bottom head higher than the top will give a lot of ring. I have my top and bottom tuned to the same pitch. Should I loosen the bottom skin?

Another problem I am having that might be related is the "bounce" off the top head. Not sure what else to call it. But when I do drum rolls on the snare, the stick isn't getting a lot of bounce back making it very difficult. I also don't remember it being this way when I got the kit. Could the set just be old and wearing out? Its about a 10-12 year old Tama set with the aluminum (metal) snare. I have an Evens Reverse Dot Coated head on the top and an Evans G1 on the bottom. Both heads are relatively new. Any suggestions?
 
You must be doing something differently. Play with the snare tuning or use deader heads. Your snare shell isn't just gonna "wear out" unless you dropped it or cracked it or something.
 
Ok... Well... Any other suggestions? I haven't dropped it or cracked it. The whole kit has been kept in great condition. Anybody know a little more about drum tuning that might have a suggestion?
 
what I do to take the ping or ring out of most of the toms and snare is to get about 5cm of tape make a fold in the middle and then put in on the skin of the snare. so it would look like this

____/\____

The two sided triangle represents the fold. The edges of the tape can touch, I didn't know how to illustrate it better without taking a photo. If it still rings add a second piece. A bit of ring is ok, see how it sounds in a mix rather than just on solo.

I found this helps a lot.

;)
 
AudioDude....maybe I'm just dense but are you putting the tape on the beater or the reso?
 
Ok, I think that helps. But good question... I would assume the beater side.

But, how close to the edge?
 
One piece does it fine on my snare drum. I put it close to the rim, but not touching the rim. Somewhere on any edge is fine, just make sure it's flat minus the fold area. I use it only on the top skin on the snare.

I got a tip from a studio drummer that said you can put a small piece under the toms if you need to as well as the top skin. I haven't tried the tape under the snare, I would try it on the top first and take it from there. It mutes it enough to take the ping out.

I use a tape called Gaffa or Gaffer - It's a great tape to use for audio stuff in general.
 
bohunk06 said:
I am getting a lot of ring out of my snare and it is definitely picking up on my recordings. This is somewhat of a new problem... I have been recording for years and don't remember this in the past. So I have no idea what I am doing now that is causing it. I read somewhere that tuning a bottom head higher than the top will give a lot of ring. I have my top and bottom tuned to the same pitch. Should I loosen the bottom skin?

Another problem I am having that might be related is the "bounce" off the top head. Not sure what else to call it. But when I do drum rolls on the snare, the stick isn't getting a lot of bounce back making it very difficult. I also don't remember it being this way when I got the kit. Could the set just be old and wearing out? Its about a 10-12 year old Tama set with the aluminum (metal) snare. I have an Evens Reverse Dot Coated head on the top and an Evans G1 on the bottom. Both heads are relatively new. Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

hey man, all you need to do is record the snare and then using a parametric equalizer, set the Q really hi so you can sweep a very fine/thin area of frequency. when you find where the ring is you'll know it hahaha it will get VERY loud and all you'll hear is ring. Should look like this: (keeping in mind that your ringing may be coming from a different frequency, just move around till you find it)
EQ1.jpg


then once you fine it, just dip it down to remove the ring like this:
EQ2.jpg

now i wouldn't suggest dipping it down so far. you want soooome ring in there so it still sounds like it has life to it. just use your ears :)

hope that helps
 
Thats awesome. Thanks... I will try that first since I already tracked it. If that doesnt work, I will try the tape. I also saw an engineer put a few cotton balls in the snare through the sound whole. They rested on the bottom head which muted it a little. Anybody try this at all?

thanks again for all the replies!!
 
Heads and tuning make an incredible amount of difference in ring and stick rebound.
The tighter you have your heads the less you can press you sticks into them and get rebound. Tighter (up to a point) will give you more ring until you reach the point the drum chokes.
This also goes for ply thickness. The thicker they are (such as a reinforcing dot in the middle) as you tighten them you will get less stick rebound.

It is all a matter of taste and playing style.
If I am going to tune my drums high I will stick with single ply heads so that they retain some give. In fact I stick with single plies unless at the tuning I want, they sound flappy.

Think of guitar strings. I can tune a high e string and a low e string to the exact same pitch. But which one will be slinkier? the thinner one!, but it may buzz like crap, so have work within your desired tuning range.
I like the give of lighter heads. I don't like the doubling of the center with a reinforcing dot because it detracts from the natural stretch in the middle.

If you like a dry sound get an Evans vented dry snare head...that's what they are for.
I personally like stuff to ring, and then if I want dry I can throw a "MoonGel" on it.
 
Moongels are probably expensive for what they really are, but they're great and I use them for such situations. I tune drums to get the most resonance and ring often comes w/ that. Tune for the most body and resonance, then use moongels on the batter at the edge until you get what you want. If you try to tune away the ring, you may tune away from where the drum wants to be. Cut the moongels in half to give you more flexibility if you only need to cut the ring slightly w/o deadening the drum.
 
Thanks for the responses. TMIX, I think you may have answered both problems. I tuned by snare pretty tight for a high crisp sound, but wasn't getting a lot of rebound. So I tightened it more and more thinking that the tighter it is, the better the rebound. But if you are saying its the opposite with the dot, then that is my problem. And since its really tight now, thats whats probaby giving me so much ring. I will try to loosen it up a little and see if that helps both problems. Thanks guys!!
 
All these suggestions are good, but they're just band-aids. If you don't want your snare to ring, use the right heads and tune them properly.

I don't like ringy snares so I use an Evans Genera Dry batter and Remo Hazy Ambassadors on the bottom. If you still get ring out of that combo, then you need to quit playing drums because you are doing something seriously wrong.
 
I use a few little pieces of that blue, gummy sticky tack stuff that's used to put posters on a wall.
 
if you like a cracking snare with a lot of rebound, definitely give the Evans EC Reverse Dot Snare head a try. I use one on my 6x13 Tama Maple snare, with a Remo Ebony Ambassador head on the snare side and it sounds great. I've heard/used the EC Reverse Dot on several other drums of varying diamater/depth/shell materials with several different combinations of snare-side heads, and it they always come out sounding good. Of course Moongels and Min-EMADS are both good options if you have achieved a snare sound you really like but with only minor overtones that show up in the mix (that you dont always notice when tuning the drum). Which brings up another good point: When tuning a drum for recording, listen to it through the mics/signal-chain you'll use to record it.
 
Greg_L said:
All these suggestions are good, but they're just band-aids. If you don't want your snare to ring, use the right heads and tune them properly.

I don't like ringy snares so I use an Evans Genera Dry batter and Remo Hazy Ambassadors on the bottom. If you still get ring out of that combo, then you need to quit playing drums because you are doing something seriously wrong.
Click to expand...

Ditto. If you're getting excessive ringing then you're not tuning properly or something is out of whack with the drum. A little ring is fine and gets absorbed in the recording. I use Remo CS coated reverse on the top head with clear standard snare on the bottom and never have a problem with ring.

Bottom head should always be tighter than the top head, never the same.
 
PhilGood said:
Ditto. If you're getting excessive ringing then you're not tuning properly or something is out of whack with the drum. A little ring is fine and gets absorbed in the recording. I use Remo CS coated reverse on the top head with clear standard snare on the bottom and never have a problem with ring.

Bottom head should always be tighter than the top head, never the same.
Click to expand...

I totally disagree. Ringing is a result of a drum that IS tuned evenly. It is a harmonic overtone (which occurs at even intervals above the fundamental tone) like a guitar string has at certain points. They are the result of the vibration of small sections of the head, perhaps at the half, quarter, or eighth distance from the center.

If you use a coated or a thick heavy head, then that coating serves as a dampening layer which stops those finer overtones. It is the same fix as we are discussing but done internally instead of externally.

Ring tends to be made more apparent (or amplified) by the shell vibration. You could approach the problem with shell muffling as well.

If you tune the drum head so that the head tension is very uneven, then yes, that stops the overtones from surviving. However, it also ruins the head faster.

What you are fighting here is the natural behavior of a body under tension. In part, it is what gives the drum volume, sustain, and character. Some drummers embrace that ring sound and enjoy it as being uniquely "their sound."
 
If you are actually using a G1 on the bottom, that's the problem.

You need a snare-side head, which is thin enough. A G1 is 10mil thick. I think your average snareside head is .3mil thick.
 
RawDepth said:
I totally disagree. Ringing is a result of a drum that IS tuned evenly. It is a harmonic overtone (which occurs at even intervals above the fundamental tone) like a guitar string has at certain points. They are the result of the vibration of small sections of the head, perhaps at the half, quarter, or eighth distance from the center.
Click to expand...
Right, but if you don't want the drum to ring, it is not tuned properly for what you are trying to accomplish.

RawDepth said:
Ring tends to be made more apparent (or amplified) by the shell vibration. You could approach the problem with shell muffling as well.
Click to expand...
Complete overkill.

RawDepth said:
If you tune the drum head so that the head tension is very uneven, then yes, that stops the overtones from surviving. However, it also ruins the head faster.
Click to expand...
It doesn't have to be tensioned unevenly. You just have to tune the bottom head to an interval that dampens the top head. Both heads are tuned evenly, just to different notes. The easiest way to get the most ring out of a drum is to tune both heads to the same note, that gets obnoxious.

for snare, I tune the bottom head higher. For toms, the bottom head is lower. YMMV

A little ring actually helps the drum have some life in a mix, too much is annoying. (St. Anger)
 
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