Slate Digital's 'Trigger'

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miroslav said:
What I was asking was....how well does ST generate a MIDI track from an audio drum kit track so that you can import the MIDI track into the DAW and use it to trigger samples from other players/libraries besides ST?

It seems most guys just use ST for everything...which makes it easy since you don't need to create a MIDI track, you just go directly from ST to the samples...but then you're restricted only to ST samples.
I emailed them about the abilty to import samples from other programs like Drumagog can do....and they said they didn't offer that because of liscencing issues....but i think they just want you to stick with Steven Slate products. I mean, how does Drumagog do it...?

I don't really want to create all of my own samples, though I do have a bunch of snares and some nice cymbals that I might want sample eventually.

The drums in Superior Drummer and SD packs sound quite real and quite good. The basic EZ drums are not that outstanding....though EZ expansion packs are pretty good, depending on which ones you get.
I'm not against using the ST samples too if I ever get ST, I just really would only get ST in order to generate accurate MIDI tracks from existing audio drum kit tracks to then use with my EZ/SD library.
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My lord, you are way over thinking this whole thing. Buy the shit and you will understand why you are wasting your time asking. :)
 
miroslav said:
Have you used ST on a recorded drum kit track to then create a MIDI file from...?
I'm just curious how well ST reads the audio to generate an accurate MIDI that can then be used for other sample players (like AD or SD)?

In your case, you're starting with a MIDI track.
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No I have not. The only way I've ever used ST is the way I described.
 
jimmys69 said:
My lord, you are way over thinking this whole thing. Buy the shit and you will understand why you are wasting your time asking. :)
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What does that mean...you're saying then that ST creates great, accurate MIDI tracks from audio drum kit tracks? :)

Naa....I'm not really over thinking it. :D
I always take a little time checking things out with new audio purchasing decisions.

I bought a ton of software in the last few months, so I didn't want to pile on more unless I was going to really use it a lot. At this time I have no immediate need to convert any old drum tracks to MIDI...and I was kinda waiting on Toontrack to come out with their own version of a trigger app, that way I could just stay with their stuff, which I like. They said they were working on something...but no set completion time.
 
Yes man, you are over thinking it here.

SSTrigger does not create MIDI tracks in it's basic use really. It not anything like KT Trigger. It can and will send MIDI notes to other programs if you wish to use other samples, but that is not the way it works. I suppose to some degree it works in the same way as velocity works in MIDI notes, but it uses the velocity/level of a acoustic drum to trigger the samples based on analog sounds. Not MIDI numbers. It takes the input level of audio tracks (without using MIDI notes) to trigger a sample. Many samples at once if desired.

Well, I suppose zeros and ones in the digital world could be considered the same, but it is not a translation to MIDI, then samples. It is completely done in an analog-ish format.
 
I would not rely on the software, if I did not believe it is as good as I have commented on and used. If anyone did not like it, then I would feel they did not listen or try. There is no doubt to me, that SS Trigger is the best thing available for drum enhancement. Period...
 
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jimmys69 said:
Yes man, you are over thinking it here.

SSTrigger does not create MIDI tracks in it's basic use really.
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I think maybe your answering my question based on how YOU use ST....which is fine, I get what you are saying, but I was asking something specific in how I would want to use it.

Here's an email from Slate:

Hello miroslav,

A staff member has replied to your question:

Hi,

Trigger is 100% sample accurate! You may, as you say, track your audio through Trigger and render a MIDI file to drag and drop to host via the MIDI capture controls. This will be single MIDI note so you'd need to do this for all tracks, and merge them. You can set be MIDI note for MIDI Out in Trigger's preferences if you wish to use it that way to trigger EZ Drummer in real time.

Regards,

Ashley Smith
Slate Digital / Steven Slate Drums
Technical Support Specialist
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As you can see....she is telling me that in order to use ST with my Toontrack stuff....I can either "render a MIDI file" or "trigger EZ/SD in real time".

I don't want to do it in real time, because I prefer to create new *audio* drum tracks from the samples, rather than always have have real-time MIDI stuff going on in my DAW, and locked to my real audio tracks.
That's just how I prefer to work....all with audio tracks, when I get down to the mixing.

Yes, I know some people like to keep things "virtual" since it allows them to continuously make changes to the drum MIDI/sample real-time playback....but I just like to get them set, and then turn them into audio tracks.
For that...I need to render a complete MIDI track, assign my EZ/SD samples to it....then render that out to audio. ;)

So again....I'm not reallhy "over thinking it"...I'm just thinking about how I would use it in my preferred way of doing MIDI/sample drums.
With that in mind...all I was asking you ST users was....has anyone actually rendered a MIDI file with ST from an existing real audio drum track, and then used that MIDI to re-render with new samples (from their player/sampler of choice) and creata a new audio drum track....?

I just want to know how well ST can interpret/analyze an *existing* audio drum track, and convert it to accurate MIDI drum grooves....and how well it picks up on the subtle drum playing nuances, etc, etc, etc.
The Slate people said that it works much better when staying within ST and using that "direct" connection between trigger and its own samples....so that leads me to deduce that when rendering to a MIDI file, ST may not be 100% spot on....but again that's why I was asking you ST users if anyone's done that.
I know what ST can do using it the other way...and sure, it's worthwhile just for that too, but it appears that you guys here haven't tried rendering out to a MIDI file and using that to trigger samples with OTHER drum apps....which is what I want to know.

So If anyone has used ST in the way I am asking above....let me know, otherwise, I'm not trying to debate how it's best to use it....that's really up to each person to decide for themselves in their own situation. :)
 
Steven Slate has some good plugins. I haven't used trigger though but it's nice to hear what others think of it.
 
OK...so after driving jimmys69 nuts ;) with my questions about Trigger over the last couple of months....
...today I pulled the trigger. :)

I kinda knew that I would end up getting it at some point, as I have a bunch of drum tracks that I would like to use, but I know they could should better if I replaced the snare on some tracks and maybe toms on some other ones....and trying to go back and rerecord them at this point would be a bigger hassle....so I'll give Trigger a go and see what comes out of it.
Audio Deluxe has been running a special on both the Slate apps and that damn iLok 2 at even lower prices than what Slate is selling them. I didn't want to wait for the sales to disappear and then be pissed I didn't get them.

$149 for Trigger Platinum + the iLok 2....not bad.

OK jimmy.....once I get it, I'll bug you with new questions! :D
 
OK....here's one for you on the iLok.

I've only read a little about how Pace does it with their iLok....but I'm assuming that Pace/Slate have an option for offline registration/activation....right?

I'm assuming I'll just do the same as I now do with the Waves stuff and a basic USB drive....install some iLok app on my Internet computer, plug in the iLok and get the licenses, then I can take the iLok to my offline DAW, and I should be good to go as long as the iLok is attached to the DAW....right?
I hope iLok doesn't require a constant Internet connection in order to work...?

I have to wait a few days or a week for them to send me the iLok and also the Slate codes.
 
Miro, you totally just have to whisper into Trigger's ear the way Roy Rogers would do and the software will do whatever you like... :laughings:



Sorry, been waiting for an opportunity to use that one. Sure it's been done before. I'm here all week. Try the veal... :thumbs up:
 
miroslav said:
OK....here's one for you on the iLok.

I've only read a little about how Pace does it with their iLok....but I'm assuming that Pace/Slate have an option for offline registration/activation....right?

I'm assuming I'll just do the same as I now do with the Waves stuff and a basic USB drive....install some iLok app on my Internet computer, plug in the iLok and get the licenses, then I can take the iLok to my offline DAW, and I should be good to go as long as the iLok is attached to the DAW....right?
I hope iLok doesn't require a constant Internet connection in order to work...?

I have to wait a few days or a week for them to send me the iLok and also the Slate codes.
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To update your iLok, you need to be online. This is only to upload licenses to the stupid dongly thing. Once you have that, you can install the software to any computer. Just need the iLok plugged in to work.

To be honest, I heard some weird things about the latest iLok update (that was like 6 months ago), so I never bothered to go there. Not about to even try. My software is working. I am sure they have resolved the issue by now, but I don't fix things myself until they are broken....

The Slate Trigger thing is going to take quite a bit of space. The highest speed internet available here (50 Mbps) took a few hours to upload all of the Platinum Deluxe samples. Make sure you have a drive capable of holding all of the samples that you can place in the right place on your recording computer. Actually, you can place the 'Trigger Instruments' folder anywhere on your recording PC and just direct it there. When you open Trigger, you can pull up files from any directory just like Windows Explorer does. It could be on Drive 'E' or 'Desktop'. It does not care where it loads the samples from. They load into ram when you choose a kit or instrument.

I myself have the ability to be online with my recording PC. Only for trusted sites that I purchase software from. Even then that scares me, but so far so good.


We will be talking again soon Miro. :)
 
Update:

Ok, well I need to update my iLOK to remove a license for a purchased software from Soundtoys. MicroShift. Evidently I need to release the license as this is the first version of a Soundtoys software that does not require iLOK. I hope they all come to mind that this is just stupid. iLOK is just overkill IMO.

Anyway, I will let you know how it goes... :)

Update: All good. No worries.
 
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Yeah....I expected that the iLok needs to be initially on an active internet connection....I was just wondering if it wanted an active internet connection all the time or on some regular schedule so that it can re-authenticate or some such nonsense.
I don't have a problem using a different computer as my go-between...I already do that with Waves.
 
Naw, as far as I know you only need internet connection when downloading a license. Otherwise completely independent(one time only). No need to update - unless there is a need to update. :)

I believe you may also need the iLOK connected in order to download software. I am not completely sure as I have internet connected for things like this on my recording PC. I could be wrong. Either way, just download software on your internet connected comp and transfer. Then plug in the iLOK to the recording comp and install.

iLOK now also allows you to connect to internet without using a browser. You can connect directly to iLOK License Manager and update without the possibility of virus from whichever crap Firefox, IE, whatever could give. I understand you not wanting to connect at all with your recording comp, but they have made things a bit more secure.

Let me know, as I am curious myself how this works out for you. Oh yeah, I know you will be yelling at me if things don't work right. lol!

:D
 
Not that I know how iLoks work but I'd have thought you have to put a licence file on it at some stage and that it wouldn't need to be connected or within cooee of an internet connection to download the actual files... that would be a very restrictive operating model

FTR, the full Slate VST that both Jimmy and I now proudly own was 9.1 GB... I'd imagine Trigger uses the same samples and would be about the same size...

Note that I have refrained from further Trigger jokes... ;)
 
OK...got my codes, just need to wait for my iLok to arrive so I can move forward.

I see that there is Trigger 2 and Trigger 1.
For Trigger 1 users the V2 is free, but it appears the two are not compatible.
Anyway, I'm just going to download the V2 samples and app, and not even bother checking out V1.
I see some folks on Gearslutz bitching about the incompatibility between V1 and V2 since they already had projects going with V1...but if I just go with V2, that's not going to be an issue, and I'm guessing V2 is improved and with more stuff.

Now, I'm not being negative before even trying it.....but I also happened to notice some guys bitching about the samples, saying it's just a lot crappy metal drums and whatnot, and nothing really outstanding.
I'm pretty easy to please with drum samples....I just need a couple each of snares/kicks/toms/cymbals that sound really good, and I can work with that. I don't need 85 snares/kicks/etc to pick from....but I was just surprised to see some complaining about the selection.
 
miroslav said:
OK...got my codes, just need to wait for my iLok to arrive so I can move forward.

I see that there is Trigger 2 and Trigger 1.
For Trigger 1 users the V2 is free, but it appears the two are not compatible.
Anyway, I'm just going to download the V2 samples and app, and not even bother checking out V1.
I see some folks on Gearslutz bitching about the incompatibility between V1 and V2 since they already had projects going with V1...but if I just go with V2, that's not going to be an issue, and I'm guessing V2 is improved and with more stuff.

Now, I'm not being negative before even trying it.....but I also happened to notice some guys bitching about the samples, saying it's just a lot crappy metal drums and whatnot, and nothing really outstanding.
I'm pretty easy to please with drum samples....I just need a couple each of snares/kicks/toms/cymbals that sound really good, and I can work with that. I don't need 85 snares/kicks/etc to pick from....but I was just surprised to see some complaining about the selection.
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Honestly, I am not a fan of Trigger2. I find it less comprehensive and the samples 'ARE' not the same. At least not the ones I typically use. That is something for you to decide. The layout is quite different between the two. It could be likened to using two different drum programs. Trigger 1 is simple. Trigger 2 takes more to get the initial results, yet has more options.

I would suggest working with Trigger 1 first and get your feet wet. Then try Trigger 2 and see if you like it. You can have both installed at the same time.

Oh, and you know Trigger has no cymbals right? Only drums.

SSD4 has cymbals that sound great, but it does not 'trigger' from live drums. Two different animals.
 
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