Singing Techniques

  • Thread starter Thread starter tyler657recpro
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I expect that most of us know who Prince ( and his various incarnations) is.

Tanlith... I notice you're from Windsor. Many of us Canadians forget that many (or even most :rolleyes: )Canadian artists (ie. Leonard Cohen) are virtually unknown outside of Canada.... especially in the USA. Sure, there are a few like Brian Adams and Celine Dione, but ask your average American, from, say, Utah who Kim Mitchell, Matthew Good, Bif Naked, etc. are, and you'll get mostly blank looks.

Chris
 
"And after all this, you have to learn to hear proper pitch while singing. I'm not really a singer, yet. "

Do you guys think a singing teacher can teach how to sing in key? Isn't this something a singer should do inately?

Yes, I understand a teacher can improve someone's EXISTING voice and improve their existing technique, but if they can't even hit the right notes consistently, isn't THAT just so fundamental?

Can a person be taught not to be tone deaf?

I'm genuinely interested.

BTW you missed Shania Twain and Avril lavigne from the list of Canadian artists. I'm from the UK and I've heard of some of the ones you mentioned.
 
Oh yes! That's one of the exciting thing about lessons!

Sure - a big part of being in pitch is to train and practice singing intervals (i.e. minor 3rd, major 3rd, etc...) but you also get taught techniques (example - reducing your throat pressure) that help you get to your intended pitch more reliably.

Learning techniques + Practice makes you better.

It is weird to me though - it seems like people here are so black and white when it comes to lessons. Clearly lessons can help you do things that are only really hard to by yourself. If you can't take regular lessons then take irregular lessons. You will still be a better singer if you only take one or two or twenty lessons in a year instead of fifty two (and of course if you practice).
 
How easily can you damage your voice though and how can you tell if you are. Cause looking at how people like Cobain could go on screaming for years with out killing thier voice, it doesnt seem like singing with bad technique like i do would casue any problem unless I kept doing it for many years. Am i wrong or can you hurt your voice that quick?
 
Do you guys think a singing teacher can teach how to sing in key? Isn't this something a singer should do inately?
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ABSOLUTELY !!!!


How easily can you damage your voice though and how can you tell if you are.
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This is where the problem comes in with books and self taught lessons, YOU DO NOT KNOW WHEN YOU ARE HURTING YOUR VOICE ! You only find that one day your voice has a very limited range and more days then not, you really can't sing at all.


Cobain could go on screaming for years with out killing thier voice, it doesnt seem like singing with bad technique like i do would casue any problem unless I kept doing it for many years. Am i wrong or can you hurt your voice that quick?
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Cobane really was not around for that long...

Be that as it may, every one is different. Some people are just lucky and can scream all the time or have developed up a technique that does not hurt there voice.

NOW, here is the cool part, if you get extensive lessons, like me, you will find that you can learn to scream sing, no always, but quite often. Certainly a few songs a set. Plus, at the end of the night, you will still have a singing voice left.

BUT THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN OVER NIGHT.

I took lessons weekly for more then 9 years, it did not take that long to get good, but it did take a few years of regular lessons to get to that very advance level of singing technique.
A lot of work, a ton of practice, a determination to have the voice I wanted, I did not want an opera voice, I wanted a rock voice. I got that.


Hope this helps


Sean

PS.

I was very lucky in the coach I ended up with, he was very open minded and had no intention in making me a singer I did not want to be.
 
glynb said:
"And after all this, you have to learn to hear proper pitch while singing. I'm not really a singer, yet. "

Do you guys think a singing teacher can teach how to sing in key? Isn't this something a singer should do inately?
Click to expand...

Yes and no. Yes, you can be trained to sing in better pitch (if someone is actually tone-deaf, training won't help that, but I'm talking about slight "pitchiness" here). The fact of the matter is, proper breathing and focus of the sound in your face/head/mouth, as well as proper articulation, ALL contribute to pitch. Someone can sound slightly flat just because he or she doesn't have the sound focused correctly.

As far as the innate thing, like I said, naturally tone-deaf, well that's a problem. Fortunately, it's not mine; I have very good ears, just not the control. And what sounds out of tune to me sometimes does not sound out of tune to others ... so it's a matter of degrees. And most singers I've seen do not arrive at this control innately.

Of course there is the rare person who's a total natural, can sing properly with spot-on pitch most of the time. But I'm guessing this thread wouldn't have been started if the poster was one of those people (this is in no way a derogatory statement against you Tyler, please don't take it that way. I actually think it's a good thread, and most if not all of us participating in it are NOT "naturals.").

Anyway, I hope this perspective on "learning pitch" helps.

gg
 
Don't know if it's true or not, buy my voice coach told me that really there's really only a pretty small percentage of the world that really can't carry a tune after some practice and lessons. He seemed to indicate that while some people certainly are more naturally gifted and there is such a thing as better ears, most people can learn to sing in tune. Guess that's not really an earth-shattering concept! lol
 
This is great.... I'm glad you asked, because this is exactly my experience.

I heard a recording of my voice when I was about 11 or 12, and was totally appalled - not because I wasn't used to the sound of my own voice, but because I recognized it as horribly out of tune. The effect of that recording was that I did not sing again for ten years. Even after that, I did not sing unless I absolutely had to (ie. some of my university music courses required me to attempt this humbling and frustrating exercise.)

After years of frustration with trying to find a singer for the various bands I was in, I started to try myself. The more I tried, the better I got.... I went from absolutely brutal to almost listenable. :(

I found the best possible teacher for me, and now, I feel that I am developing into a pretty good singer.

So, from experience, I will say this about tuning. There are two factors: being able to actually HEAR the pitch that you need to sing; and being able to CONTROL YOUR VOICE sufficiently to achieve it. My problem was primarily the latter. (and initially, lacking the conficence to try, which is also a big piece of the puzzle - If you think you can, you can.... If you think you can't, then you can't) A bad ear can be developed with practice. Control can be developed with practice. Confidence is gained through someone (or some source, anyway.... maybe internal....) supporting you through your efforts. Tone-deafness, although it does exist, is extremely rare - almost as rare as perfect pitch.

Chris
 
geekgurl said:
Of course there is the rare person who's a total natural, can sing properly with spot-on pitch most of the time. But I'm guessing this thread wouldn't have been started if the poster was one of those people (this is in no way a derogatory statement against you Tyler, please don't take it that way. I actually think it's a good thread, and most if not all of us participating in it are NOT "naturals.").

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On the contrary, I do have a really good ear for pitch, and i can hit stuff right on, my problem is just hitting higher stuff. I'm not exactly how to say it properly, but i used the tone generator on a tuner, set at 440hz, i could hit up to a B sometimes, but it stresses me a lot, usually just below that I can hit quite easily. I'd like to get all the way up to a C, but Im not sure i will ever be able to. I'll have to post a sample later.
 
ive been teaching myself by listening to my favorite singers and trying to emulate them. This doesnt seem to stress my voice too much except sometimes itll get hoarse and do the crackle thing between pitches where its not a smooth transisiton. But the next day its fine. Im kind of scared to keep doing this now though after hearing waht everyone says. Any reccomendations for picking a singing coach?
 
Hey Apple....

You've unwittingly stepped into a rattlesnake field. There are a number of opinions on what the "proper" way to sing is, and the people who hold those opinions will argue furiously that their technique/opinion, etc. is the best. I hold one of the more difficult-to-understand techniques as the best, but I'll share a few things that will probably be generally accepted by most.

If you approach a teacher and they try any of these, KEEP GOING!!

1. They promise miracles in a very short amount of time.
2. They have you do goofy things like lift the end of the grand piano while you sing. (I've heard of it, really....:confused: )
3. They make you make funny faces when you sing vowels.
4. They say "drop your jaw." (try this... sing "Ahh" and drop your jaw. Do you feel your throat/air passage begin to shrink up? Can that possibly be good?)
5. They tell you about pushing your stomach muscles or diaphragm in, or squeezing your abdomen in order to support your breath. (Truth is, you want the reverse...)
6. They claim that they can give you a six-octave range. (or ANYTHING silly like that)


If you approach a teacher and they say these kinds of things, listen carefully, and consider them:

1. Encourage ways of achieving/promoting resonance in tone.
2. Encourage strategies for singing without stressing the vocal cords - or even better.... strategies that will promote the longevity of your voice.
3. Talk about how focusing the voice and supporting the breath by ensuring the diaphragm is kept down (and therefore open) are the key to singing.

IF YOU FIND SOMEONE WHO TALKS ABOUT INHALING THE VOICE AS PART OF A FRAMEWORK OF THE BEL CANTO TECHNIQUE, SIGN UP FOR AT LEAST THREE YEARS OF LESSONS, AND VOLUNTEER TO CUT THEIR GRASS ON A REGULAR BASIS!! (inhalation is the key, here... and I know that now you are thinking I'm nuts.....)

For more info on this, go to this thread:

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?s=&threadid=58771&highlight=bel+canto

Chris
 
taht bel canto technique sounds cool but very drawn out to get results. sounds like for waht im into i should maybe find someone who teaches roger loves technique. I was also reccomended barbershop singing for the type of music i like. not really what i expected, but worth looking at.
 
You've deduced correctly that the Bel Canto technique is NOT a quick fix of any sort. If you're not willing to commit to at least a couple of years, you're probably wasting your time with the Bel Canto technique. If you are interested in investing the time, it is, indeed, a good investment.

Chris
 
I think you misread me. I'm not ignorant. I've played the guitar for 16 years and sung for about 8. I know what a teacher can and can't do.
What I'm saying is if you ask someone you think sing good or play the guitar good for exercises or "how do I do this" or "how do I do that" you can get by without a teacher. If you can afford a teacher and want to do it. Fine. Go right ahead. The path will probably be shorter than when on your own, but it's not the ONLY way to learn something.

When I have practiced singing, and the guitar on my own and I've feeled pain or feeled tensed I have immediately stopped. Then I've rested for a while and tried a different approach or asked someone how to.
If you don't understand that you're doing something wrong and have to change it if you feel pain, then too bad for you.

Tyler has gotten tons of good info here, and he hasn't taken a single lesson yet.

Go ahead. Call me ignorant if you will, I don't care. I don't think taking lessons is wrong, but I don't think not taking them is wrong either.
 
Thats what I would do is stop singing if my throat started too hurt or my voice started breaking up. One time i tried to do the scream "SHITTTTEEE!" like in greenday's "Hitchin a ride" And I totally tore hell out of my throat it felt like it strainedd and tehn popped or something. But then i didnt make any sound for like a week after that so it got better. Im wary to test my limits anymore though without instruction, cause one of my girl - friends who sings opera/ r&b got vocule nodules just for trying to improve her range everyday.
 
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Keep in mind that genetics plays a significant role here as well... some people just aren't "built" to have a certain range...

Sure you can push beyond it a little, but at some point you'll hit the physical barrier that is your limit.

But is this thread about increasing range? Or improving pitch? I forget :p :p :p LOL

I never bothered to really try and increase my range... I just write for my existing range. Makes more sense to me. Work with the tools you have. There's ALWAYS room for pitch improvement though...

Of course this is just my humble opinion...

- Tanlith -
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Anecdotal stuff..

Here's my experience from just this last week...

I play in a covers band and we decided to do a cover of the Oasis song 'Don't Look Back In Anger'. I practiced the lead vocal at home (you know the problems - family around, thin walls, neighbours etc) and after much effort decided I couldn't reach the high notes and informed the band we'd have to drop the key down. So everyone learned it in the lower key.

When it came to actual rehearsal, although I could sing it in the new lower key and hit all the notes, the song just didn't have the same impact, the same punch, as the original. I said I'd demonstrate to the band why we couldn't do it in the original key by showing everyone how I couldn't hit the notes. So we tried it in the original key... and you guessed it, i could sing it, albeit at the top of my range.

Now, whether it was due to the fact that we were in a practice session so my vocal chords were warmed up, or down to adrenaline of having the band there playing, or be it the fact that I really had to belt out the tune loud to be heard above the noise of the band (unlike at home where I need to keep the volume down), or whether a combination of factors, I don't know and can't explain but I DID it.

So although i didn't take a singing lesson last week, the point I'm making I guess is that as someone else said sometimes if you practice a song which seems just out of range, you may find you can hit it after a while. Choose a song that you think is out of your range and go for it, you may be surprised with practice what you can achieve.
 
Re: Anecdotal stuff..

glynb said:
Here's my experience from just this last week...

I play in a covers band and we decided to do a cover of the Oasis song 'Don't Look Back In Anger'. I practiced the lead vocal at home (you know the problems - family around, thin walls, neighbours etc) and after much effort decided I couldn't reach the high notes ...

... I said I'd demonstrate to the band why we couldn't do it in the original key by showing everyone how I couldn't hit the notes. So we tried it in the original key... and you guessed it, i could sing it, albeit at the top of my range.
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Happens to me all the time... and I think i can explain it somewhat:

At home you're more inhibited for different reasons: (usually cause of noise restraints... "Hey! Keep it down in there!" etc...)

But when you call practice - all bets are off and you can really push it with confidence and energy...

To get around this problem I sing while I drive... it's not unusual to see me cruising down the street belting it out like a mad man... windows up and AC cranked... often I cruise the back roads on the outskirts of town... less people around - some folks look at ya funny if they see ya singing :p

Anyhoo like I said... i think it has much to do with your current inhibitions: at home you're concerned about someone comming in all pissed off about the noise... at practice... noice is expected and encouraged...

- Tanlith -
 
Yah my neighbors look at me like im mental after trying to do screaming singing. Screw em heh.
 
applesmasher said:
Yah my neighbors look at me like im mental after trying to do screaming singing. Screw em heh.
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Normally I'd agree with you 100% on the "Screw em"... but right now I live in an apartment. :p

"Screw em" = Eviction :p hehehe

good thing my rhythm guitarist lives waaaayy oout in the county ;)

- Tanlith -
(Site Updated for High Speed -- Dial Up Site comming soon!)
 
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