Shredders vs. "feel players" - an observation

[Cyrokk]

And a drummer cannot "wipe the floor" with another drummer. It's *not* a competition. Most pros grew up enough to stop playing "battle of the bands" when they got out of high school. Art is *not* a sport.-Richie

No shit. I was using alliteration to describe how, although Keith Moon is considered the god of drummers by many, his playing lacks the back beat of Phil Rudd, a fundamental that most rock fans would agree is essential to the genre.

Or as you say, "appropriate" to the genre.

I was also drawing a parallel to point out that the stupid-ass "battle of the band" argument related to guitarists, which is really what this whole thread boils down to, is also evident in other instruments.

 

[mshilarious]

What if I play a diminished sweep arpeggio, but close my eyes and make a really painful grimace while I'm doing it?

I dunno, maybe try some All-Bran

You get paid for that? How does that work?

I should! Later up tonight, I'm going to try to do a vidoe on turntablists: Smoke on the Water on nylon-string guitar + cowbell vs. Karen Carpenter

 

[Greg_L]

Unlike Britney Spears, Jo Walsh is not a pathetic incompetent. His playing is entirely appropriate to the material he is doing. I couldn't care less what faces he makes, music is not a fashion show, which is why I detest stage shows with multiple costume changes and coordinated dancing. And a drummer cannot "wipe the floor" with another drummer. It's *not* a competition. Most pros grew up enough to stop playing "battle of the bands" when they got out of high school. Art is *not* a sport.-Richie

Joe Walsh sucks shit just as bad as Britney Spears. Have you heard him sing?

 

[Armistice]

What if I play a diminished sweep arpeggio, but close my eyes and make a really painful grimace while I'm doing it?

I'd believe you, because a "diminished sweep argeggio" sounds like a painful, painful thing to have to put up with.... is treatment available?

 

[chamelious]

Interesting thread. Personnally i think the idea of "feel" is a bit retarded.

USUALLY, the idea of "feel" seems to be attributed to playing a blues scale with lots of vibrato, some double stops and unison bends. To me, these are just techniques used in song writing, just the same as a sweep picked arpeggio. Is one harder than the other? Yes and no, depends on the player, depends on your definition of hard.

Yes, i agree its easy to say that someone just blasting out sweep picked arps at 2222000bpm is playing with no feel. Its equally, if not a LOT easier, to mash out a blues scale, stick on your biggest vibrato and accompanying face and look like you're "feeling" it.

For me, "feel" is everything coimbined. Its the notes you choose to play, the way you choose to play them. The techniques used to achieve this are invisible, all that matters is the end result. If you don't enjoy the sound of a sweep picked arp on the guitar, don't fucking listen to it, no ones forcing you to.

Also, go watch Steve Vai shread, then tell me he plays with no feel.

 

[Greg_L]

Also, go watch Steve Vai shread, then tell me he plays with no feel.

Not only does he play with no feel, he takes penis up the pooper.

 

[chamelious]

Not only does he play with no feel, he takes penis up the pooper.

I feel you've taken my words completly out of context and reduced what was an eloquent and intelligent response to mindless potty humour.

Awesome!

 

[ausrock]

I feel you've taken my words completly out of context and reduced what was an eloquent and intelligent response to mindless potty humour.

Awesome!

Something only a drummer could excell at .

 

[Greg_L]

Something only a drummer could excell at .

It's "excel" - one L - stupid!

 

[Greg_L]

I feel you've taken my words completly out of context and reduced what was an eloquent and intelligent response to mindless potty humour.

Awesome!

Someone's gotta lighten up the mood in here when pompous blowhards start rattling off opinions as fact.

 

[chamelious]

Fair enough but i hope you're not talking about me, i was careful to use words like "personnally" and "for me".

 

[Greg_L]

Fair enough but i hope you're not talking about me, i was careful to use words like "personnally" and "for me".

Right. Not you specifically.

 

[famous beagle]

Not only does he play with no feel, he takes penis up the pooper.

Is this an opinion rattled off as a fact?

Or .... am I missing something?

 

[soundchaser59]

Maybe Joe Walsh makes that grimace face because his back hurts when he strikes that bend note?

Haven't you ever wondered why he spends so much time on stage sitting down?

 

[Greg_L]

Is this an opinion rattled off as a fact?

Or .... am I missing something?

I don't even remember who I was talking about and I'm not going back to see, but if I said it, it's a fact.

 

[Greg_L]

Haven't you ever wondered why he spends so much time on stage sitting down?

Not at all, but I'm gonna assume it's because the music he plays is unbelievably boring.

 

[c7sus]

Maybe Joe Walsh makes that grimace face because his back hurts when he strikes that bend note?

Haven't you ever wondered why he spends so much time on stage sitting down?

I always thought it was because he was every bit as lazy as he claimed to be.

 

[nate_dennis]

I admit I have not read every post in this four page long debate . . . so forgive me if I retread some preveasly explored idea.

I think that the reason players who claim the "feel" side of the debate tend to be more negative is this:

there always seems to be some "hot new" "guitar god" playing some new impossibly fast piece that communicates nothing, yet they are hailed as this amazing new musician. For me I've always believed music should communicate something. When Dragonforce (or whatever their name is) play "Through the fire and flames" all I hear communicated is "I practiced for 3 hours a day every day for 17 years . . . check it out!"

Now is that to say that all fast playing is soul-less? No, of course not. I guess an analogy from language would work here....
We break up our english classes into two main groups . . . grammar and creative writing. We learn the words, punctuation, sentence structure first, then we learn to use these tools to communicate thoughts and emotions in our own ways.

I think that well "worded" guitar playing, be it fast or slow, should be the goal of all players. Allen Ginsberg wrote some amazing poetry that was wordy and rambling, does that negate the artistry of Robert Frost? NO!!! They are both well respected writers that chose to use words differently.

I think some "feel based" players feel like the flashy "theatrics" of the shredders get all the attention and the more minimilist styles get snuffed.

Just my thoughts.

 

[darrin_h2000]

To make it simple...its useless to make music that isnt musical...if it just screams Im fast look at me, but lacks any kind of melody...it just isnt any good.
Personally if it wasnt for Joe Lynn Turner's vocals I wouldnt have gotten into the Yngvie Malmsteen stuff.
Some guys like Joe Satriani and steve Vai do get it and make melodic records that do display speed...Micheal Angelo Biato has selections that are melodic in parts but when he is showing off which is most of the time...he is less nice to listen too...but Id love to hear him with a classical guitar in his hand.

 

[Mike_J]

It's like a guy who's addicted to Playboy Magazine but doesn't have a clue about how to establish a relationship.

That's the whole idea of Playboy. Bypass the relationship and get to the good stuff. If you're an old dude, you should know better.

But seriously, ...I don't much like shredding but you do have to admire guys that can do it well. No matter what style/technique you play, I think its a matter of taste.

A while back someone ran a thread offering up famous players for slagging and a huge list of "feel"players copped a lot of shit. And a fair few of them deserved it.

Anyway, back to Playboy....