darrin_h2000
Banned
I like this point...but Id use Bonam and Copeland to make this comparason...love both of them...would rather work with Copeland...cause Ive worked with countess Bonams...Copland was just more musical.
I like this point...but Id use Bonam and Copeland to make this comparason...love both of them...would rather work with Copeland...cause Ive worked with countess Bonams...Copland was just more musical.
zazz
hmmmm
i always thought jimmy page embodied both extremes ... i just love the way that he flies around doing all this amazing stuff but its musical at the same time and he contrasts dramatically between the shredding and the slower stuff .
C
chamelious
www.thesunexplodes.com
Jimmy page shreadding? What? Surely you mean playing a blues scale.
zazz
hmmmm
well obviously page is no technical shredder as such but i think he shows the way to try and have a foot in each camp without sacrificing melody and feeling.
Farview
Well-known member
I think Richie Blackmore would be closer to what you are describing.
philbagg
Just Killing Time
I think that a lot of Zakk Wylde fans are hilarious. Most of them go on and on
about how fast he can shred and why he's apparently the best thing since
sliced bread...
...then they bitch and moan about how his guitar work with Ozzy completely
surpasses his recent BLS stuff. Their reason? Feel over shred. His solos were
much more melodic with Ozzy but he could still show off while he did it.
Now it's more like "watch me play blues scales really fast..."
Now, don't get me wrong, I love an oul shredder too. I listen to a lot of thrash
and death metal, but I like the guitarists that don't do it constantly, or who do
it a LOT but really think about it. I'm talking about guitarists like Jeff Waters and
James Murphy OVER guitarists like Kerry King who just mindlessly shred.
My favourite Thin Lizzy guitarist is Brian Robertson, because he had an amazing
groove and sound about him, never much need to show off but he could do it.
John Sykes is probably my least favourite. I never felt that shredding had much
of a place in a band like Thin Lizzy.
So there's a time and a place for everything, except mindlessness, IMO.
Cheers,
Phil
about how fast he can shred and why he's apparently the best thing since
sliced bread...
...then they bitch and moan about how his guitar work with Ozzy completely
surpasses his recent BLS stuff. Their reason? Feel over shred. His solos were
much more melodic with Ozzy but he could still show off while he did it.
Now it's more like "watch me play blues scales really fast..."
Now, don't get me wrong, I love an oul shredder too. I listen to a lot of thrash
and death metal, but I like the guitarists that don't do it constantly, or who do
it a LOT but really think about it. I'm talking about guitarists like Jeff Waters and
James Murphy OVER guitarists like Kerry King who just mindlessly shred.
My favourite Thin Lizzy guitarist is Brian Robertson, because he had an amazing
groove and sound about him, never much need to show off but he could do it.
John Sykes is probably my least favourite. I never felt that shredding had much
of a place in a band like Thin Lizzy.
So there's a time and a place for everything, except mindlessness, IMO.
Cheers,
Phil
DrewPeterson7
Sage of the Order
...then they bitch and moan about how his guitar work with Ozzy completely
surpasses his recent BLS stuff. Their reason? Feel over shred. His solos were
much more melodic with Ozzy but he could still show off while he did it.
Now it's more like "watch me play blues scales really fast..."
There's also the fact that he's been drinking himself to death on tour, and it's really beginning to impact his picking.
I remember seeing an old video of the guy on an acoustic of all things, and it was kind of shocking to me just how much better his picking used to be. These days... :/
philbagg
Just Killing Time
Remember when he was clean shaven, not pretending to be a biker, and just
a seemingly all-round nice guy? I miss that Zakk
And yeah I know what ya mean about the drinking. Is he still sick btw?
Cheers,
Phil
DrewPeterson7
Sage of the Order
Remember when he was clean shaven, not pretending to be a biker, and just
a seemingly all-round nice guy? I miss that Zakk
And yeah I know what ya mean about the drinking. Is he still sick btw?
Cheers,
Phil
Agreed. He more than anyone I can think of is the best argument for not losing the battle to booze, as a hard drinker myself. :/
He had a blood clot removed recently - nothing lasting, as I understand, but hopefully it'll make him think about his lifestyle somewhat...
philbagg
Just Killing Time
And hopefully he won't do what metallica did when they stopped drinking,
but let's not go there
Farview
Well-known member
Zakk and Kerry shredders? Jimmy Page? Am I missing something? I thought we were talking about Yngwie, Vai, Cooly, Batio, etc... not random blues based guitarists that can play a 32nd note every once in a while.
zazz
hmmmm
yeah you are missing something ..the ability to read ..i said in reply that jimmy wasnt a shredder as such ... i was making a point about a player that could show the way forward to playing the guitar so that you werent simply a a slow hand or a shredder. it all comes in response to the initial post as far as im concerened.
famous beagle
Well-known member
Zakk is a shredder just as much any of those other guys. He's just a different kind; he's a pentatonic shredder. There's no rule that says you have to play a certain scale when shredding.
Page obviously wasn't a shredder. I haven't listened to enough Kerry King to offer an opinion on him.
I would call Zakk more of a shredder than Vai, actually. Vai has lots of chops for sure, but to me what stands out most in his playing is the quirky personality it exudes. Or, at least, it used to be that way.
If this isn't shredding, then I don't know what is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdA4ciUrH-k
Sure, it's mostly pentatonic, but so what? Shredding is more about technique (IMO) than note choice. (I think the person filming this wanted in Zakk's pants more than they wanted to see what he was doing.)
M
mattdee1
Active member
Ok, I watched that video, and I'm going to have to say it. How can anybody take this man seriously?
Beer caps glued to guitar = WIN.
famous beagle
Well-known member
I don't think he's really worried about being taken too seriously. I don't think he takes himself very seriously. He's not trying to compose on the level of a Mozart or stoke the fire of your soul like Otis Redding or Sam Cook.
Zakk's just always been the "I'm gonna kick your ass with my axe" type of guy. Balls to the wall, having fun.
I'm not a huge Zakk fan or anything, but I do credit him for his originality. He kind of carved out his own little niche in the metal field with his brand of pentatonic shredding.
DrewPeterson7
Sage of the Order
Jimmy Page clearly doesn't belong here, agreed.
Zakk? Less so these days, but the man had a hell of a right hand. I'd call him a shredder, no doubt - He plays mostly pentatonic, but then again so does Cooley a lot of the time.
M
mattdee1
Active member
I'll be the first to admit, I'm not very familiar with his work. But I do remember my first impression of his playing. It was some time in the early 90's when I was just getting into rock n' roll and learning how to play guitar. My friend brought over an Ozzy live CD that came out around that time, and the first thing I wanted to do was hear Crazy Train. That main riff kicked in and had all kinds of obnoxious pinch-harmonics and squeals, and even then I thought it sounded like total dreck compared to the Rhodes version. I also caught him live at Ozzfest several years ago, and I found his hair-whipping and wide-legged shredder posing very distracting in its goofiness. But, if he's having fun, I guess I can't fault the man.
philbagg
Just Killing Time
I'm just thankful he can't shred a piano (or at least hasn't tried - god knows
what he'll do next). His piano music is amazing, last thing we need is a
notes-per-second contest with himself on that one.
I'd gladly recommend his solo album "Book of Shadows" to anyone... That's
some amazing stuff right there. For the metal fans I'd put his Ozzy stuff well
before his BLS stuff. I like BLS, but the songwriting/playing is much better on
the Ozzy albums. Not to mention, Ozzys voice is/can be amazing. Zakk's, so-so.
It's the typical story of how brilliant they were back then, and what they are
now.
Here's some vids worth checking out to back up what I just said, and also
it's just a nice listen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFbNtqvtSf8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNIJJE6y_DA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQgXious1p0
and of course, check out the solo in No More Tears by Ozzy, it's a killer
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Farview
Well-known member
I guess I'm just jaded because I end up doing a lot of shred projects. I can play that No More Tears solo and I am not a shredder by any means. (especially since I stopped playing seriously in 1995)
I stand by my definition of shredding: If I can do it, it isn't shredding.
I stand by my definition of shredding: If I can do it, it isn't shredding.
mshilarious
Banned
Oh he did, it's just not 1969 anymore. "Communication Breakdown" and "Heartbreaker" are as shred as it got back then, him and Alvin Lee anyway. Once McLaughlin came along it recalibrated everybody's metronomes, as did Holdsworth, Malmsteen, etc.