should I....or can I....

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Bodhisan

Hillbilly
I was thrilled when I got the Joemeek VC3Q. I have to say now that the only thing I'm not thrilled with is what I'm thinking is the attack and/or threshold -- and correct me if I'm wrong – aspect of it. Even with the compression and attack turned all the way up, and with a strong input signal, I feel like it's too easy to spike above the optimum signal level. There's no definite ceiling, in other words. And I'm writing about vocals. Even with bass, I'm not getting that even output, although, granted, I'm going direct into the Meek. With the low E string, I still get too much thickness and output.

Is this just part of the compromise of getting an inexpensive, although nice, package of a pre and comp?

Would I be better off getting an RNC and Delta DMP3, or is there something I don't know about the VC3Q?
 
I don't know how much you know about compression, and if I talk down to you, my apologies!

You have the threshhold turned all the way up? As in +db? If so, you've got it backwards. The LOWER you set the threshhold, the less level the compressor is going to allow to pass through. If I misunderstood, sorry. Even the cheapest compressors you can buy can squash the heck out of a signal. They good ones, however, do it transparently. If you can hear the compressor working, you're not using it correctly.....or it's a piece of junk. I've never used your model, so that's the best I can do for you.

All the attack does is kick the compressor in quicker or slower, so I don't think that "knob" is your problem. :)

Best of luck
 
Drummerbones said:
If you can hear the compressor working, you're not using it correctly.....or it's a piece of junk. I've never used your model, so that's the best I can do for you.
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Joe Meeks don't work like that. ;)


On the VC3Q...try turning up the gain to the point where the transients turn into preamp distortion.
 
Guilty as charged!! :) You got me....

I admit, I have heard nothing but rave reviews about most Joe Meek stuff. That comment was intended for a more general description of correct compressor operation, not specifically the one in question....but my dumb ass didin't specify that now did he!?

Anyway, the statement still holds true. Good compression use is compression that nobody knows about but you. I've even had clients brag about how solid their playing was....I didn't have the heart to tell them! :)

Good luck, and have a good time
 
Chess,

Do you meank crank it so that the red O/L light (which is to the left of the leds) comes on...often?

Drummerbones: I've never used compression until I got this this past November, so I really know very little about it. My understanding from looking up old posts (I do use search, Bruce), is that the Joemeek's threshold/compression is relatively set, the ratio being 2:1 (I believe), but that pushing the input gives you more aggressive compression and, I'm guessing, a stronger threshold...

but I've never pushed the input so that the O/L comes on more than maybe once during a take. I do hit the red leds, though, often.

I'll give it a shot. Thanks, chess.

I know we can all relate to this buying equipment as being addictive, and there's nothing more I'd like than to have a good reason to get an RNC and Delta DMP3, but if don't need it, and can get a strong threshold with the Meek, I honestly don't want to pursue "the holy grail" of preamps and and compression, because there's always something new...and although I can always find a way to "afford it," my wife is "up to here." I think this whole "wanting to get a drum set now" is the straw.

Bodhisan
 
Bodhisan said:
I was thrilled when I got the Joemeek VC3Q. I have to say now that the only thing I'm not thrilled with is what I'm thinking is the attack and/or threshold -- and correct me if I'm wrong – aspect of it. Even with the compression and attack turned all the way up, and with a strong input signal, I feel like it's too easy to spike above the optimum signal level. There's no definite ceiling, in other words. And I'm writing about vocals. Even with bass, I'm not getting that even output, although, granted, I'm going direct into the Meek. With the low E string, I still get too much thickness and output.

Is this just part of the compromise of getting an inexpensive, although nice, package of a pre and comp?

Would I be better off getting an RNC and Delta DMP3, or is there something I don't know about the VC3Q?
Click to expand...

The ratio is fixed, but I don't think that is your problem. What I want to clear up is your settings control, because from the post, it sounds as if you are cranking the compression and attack all the up, and that is wrong. Also, I want to make sure you have the correct power supply. I get a lot of people who buy these units used and get the wrong supply so the units sound like shit until they get the correct supply. Make sure it is a TOC 12VAC 1amp rating supply.

Once we have the supply thing straight, we can start getting you on track. You mention spiking above the signal level. Do you mean input or output level? Remember, the Joemeek is a photo-optical device, it is not a limiter, so it lets a good deal of the transients through the signal. This is another reason why they sound so good because they do not squash the mid and high end under compression, so if you are trying to get rid of it, it will not work.

For smooth vocals you should be able to obtain a great sound by setting the input to where the LEDs if flashing into the last red led. Then set you compression control to about 11 O'Clock, set the attack to 10 O'clock, and the release at 12 O'Clock. Set your output gain enought to give your recorder what it needs and tweek from there. That should control your level but as it is not a limiter, there is no real ceiling where the signal stops. That is not what the VC3Q does. If you want a brick wall, then you should get a VCA compressor and use a high ratio, not only will that put a ceiling on it, but it will kill all the mid and high frequency transients as well. If that is what you are looking for...so be it.

If you nned more assistance, call my office toll free at 877-563-6335


Alan Hyatt
PMI Audio Group
 
Alan,

I bought this new from GC, so I imagine the supply is okay.
The unit sounds great, but it appears I'm just expecting too much from compression. When it's asked here on the forum how to get volume levels up/maintained at a consistent level, it seems compression is always the answer, at least from the perusing I've been doing.

I've done A/B testing with the compressor on the VC3Q, and I can't tell much difference between the 11 o'clock setting, and full-on compression. I guess likewise with the attack. The one adjustment I notice a difference with is the release, and I know I'm using it "wrong," but I like the results. I adjust the release all the way open (I guess I'm an "11" person), because it acts like a noise gate, and this eliminates noise room. If there's too much time between words or verses, I just punch in. Love it.

I'm getting a strong signal thru the input--I'm getting into the red leds. It just sounds like something I might have to adjust while singing into the mike. It seems to me, though, I've heard other people say that compression takes care of having to move in and away from the mike while you're singing, which is why I thought using compression would allow you to maintain the same distance, sing loud or soft, and the output from the compression would be pretty stable.

Whilst I've got you on the line, I've been wondering why your new pre won't have compression, and what will make it a better deal than the JoeMeek, as it seems they will be priced about the same, but yours without compression? The JoeMeek's pre, I think, is pretty nice -- and I know about your connection/ties with JoeMeek products.

Bodhisan
 
Bodhisan

I don't know what to tell you. Perhaps the VC3Q is not the right product for you. I know the box very well, and it does pretty much everything pretty darn good, which is why it is so popular. Maybe the type of sound you are looking for just does not exist in the VC3Q.

As for my mic pre, it is my first unit, so I wanted it to be just a mic pre with lots of features. The problem with incorporating compressors is some like VCA, others like Photo-Optical. So no matter what I do, you only please 50% of the potential customer base. The second unit we are doing is an 8 channel mic pre/mixer targeted for end of Summer. From there, I have several other units in design that will have compression and EQ, but we are way to early to discuss those.

Alan Hyatt
PMI Audio Group
 
one thing you could do is track with the meek using the optical compresser and then use a limiter on your mixdown. But, like alan said, the limiter is gonna squash your vocals so go light at first. another option is to use the fader on your mixing board to control the vocal dynamics....its harder to get it right that way, but it sounds better than compressed or limited tracks (im my opinion)
also...if you turn the attack all the way up
(Im assuming your talking about turning it all the way to the right, like an amp volume knob)
that would be increasing the time that the signal isn't being "attacked" by the compresser....so you have more raw uncompressed signal time. turning it all the way down (to the left) makes the compresser attack the signal faster. (which if im understanding you correctly is what your after).

the release controls how long the signal is compressed (turn it to the right to compress the signal longer... the more you turn it to the left the quicker the compresser lets go of the signal

i may be wrong on this since the british have most of their stuff backwards. example: the meek eq starts with the high frequency controls on the left, followed by hi mids, low mids, and bass to the far right (after you smoke one that can really mess with your head...bass akwards) LOL

i've probably REALLY got you confused now....so i'll shut up
 
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Good compression use is compression that nobody knows about but you.
Click to expand...
In a lot of cases, this is true, but the reason why people get a bunch of different types of compressors, rather than getting 16 channels of the most transparent compressors they can afford, is that sometimes you want the compressor to add something to the signal. People don't get distressors because they're completely transparent, but because they add a "special something" to the signal. What that is I don't know, because I'll never own something as upscale as a distressor!:)
 
hi,

I just got my VC3Q last night and did some quick test on bass and vocal. Everything seems to be nice... some of the knobs are pretty hard to turn though....

anyway, I notice a slight hiss from my monitors when I turned the Input knob pass 12 o'clock... is this normal?

anyway, I will need more testing to understand more....

BTW, it's nice to see a Joemeek stuff in my rack... :)
 
Leeking said:
hi,

I just got my VC3Q last night and did some quick test on bass and vocal. Everything seems to be nice... some of the knobs are pretty hard to turn though....
Click to expand...

Leeking,

If you pull the knobs out just a touch, they will turn smooth as butter. The factory push them on too tight so they rub a little. I have been after them to watch it. I know it is a pain, but a small flat blade screwdriver and a towel so you dont scratch the Meek will do it. Just pry the knob up a touch, and you're home free.

Alan Hyatt
 
The knobs on my MQ3 are all smooth. Its also dead quiet with everything set to unity gain. If you max it out there is some hiss, but I can't imagine when I would ever need to do so.

As a side issue, I often hear about people with hum problems. With probably 8 or ten pieces of gear with wall wart external transformers, I can't tell you how many times I've tracked down 60 cycle hum to a mixer cable connection that is near an external power transformer. Keep your signal lines and transformers as far away from each other as you can! It will get rid of the hum.
 
good tip about the signal cables and wall warts being separated. I don't have any noise problems out of my meek vc6q....its pretty quiet
 
thanks for the tip on the knobs Alan! :)

I used the VC3Q for some recording.... so far guitar and bass sounds nice... but i do get some hiss when trying to get the gain of my SM57 over 12 o'clock.... maybe it's the surrounding....

maybe I'll check my signal and power cables... now everything is pretty messy... :)

One thing for sure, the signal of the VC3Q is pretty hot! :)

still climbing the learning curve......
 
when you can hear your compressor PUMPING, then you are using it wrong.

You can almost always hear it working, if you can't...you need to get yo hearing checked.
 
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