should I get a preamp?

[daryle_ackerman]

I'm using a Behringer EuroDESK (not rack) 32 (channel) x 8 (bus) mixer. I go from the bus out into my Fostex 16-track digital multitracker. The mixer cost about $3200 Cdn which is about $2400 US I think. Wouldn't that mixer be considered to have decent preamps as is?

If I do get a preamp, I want it to be at least stereo to accomodate my stereo keyboards. It should also have EQ because I almost always add high-end and would have to use the Behringer mixer anyways to add the high end if the preamp didn't have EQ, which strikes me as being counter-productive.

I think the only time I notice a problem with the signal-to-noise ratio is when I track sampled piano from my EMU ESI-32 sampler. This is because I have to crank the high-end and also add high mids swept to about 8,000 Hz.

Never even though about preamps (or knew the term) till I read about it here.

Any suggestions for a <$1000 stereo preamp with EQ are welcome.

 

[mikey@thecave]

Sebatron 2000e what can i say beautiful on stereo keys and guitars

 

[scrubs]

This one? http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/item--BEHSL3242FXPRO

If you paid $2400 US for that mixer, you got ripped-off big time.

Now, I don't know about the built in preamps in that particular mixer, but did it occur to you that perhaps the reason you add so much "high-end" to your recordings may stem from the fact that the preamps in that board are not providing enough high-end detail? Or, perhaps you are losing some hearing in the higher frequencies and are compensating for it with eq? Again, I don't know your specific situation, but I would say that adding a lot of "high-end" is not a normal part of the mixing process.

I did/do have one of the small eurodesk mixers (mx802a), and the pres in that thing are garbage -- dull and lifeless. I could imagine trying to eq them to sound good, but it was a futile effort. Behringer preamps, in general, don't have a reputation for sounding good.

Perhaps you could detail for us what you don't like about your current sound and how much you feel preamps are contributing to your problem. I would say that adding higher quality preamps (and bypassing the mixer completely) can give you a bigger, tighter, more defined sound. However, preamps are just part of the equation.

 

[bcains]

I think he has the Behringer MX3282A EuroDesk because the SL3242FXPRO has only 4 subgroups. Still no way should it have cost you that much. About their pre amps, lets just say you can do a whole lot better.

 

[daryle_ackerman]

This one? http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/item--BEHSL3242FXPRO

If you paid $2400 US for that mixer, you got ripped-off big time.

No, it was the Behringer MX3282A EuroDesk like the other guy said. Paid for in `98 so perhaps not quite as much of a rip-off but I should've shopped it around on-line first I'm seeing now.

Now, I don't know about the built in preamps in that particular mixer, but did it occur to you that perhaps the reason you add so much "high-end" to your recordings may stem from the fact that the preamps in that board are not providing enough high-end detail?

No, that never occured to me. You are quite right -- it could be that the Behringer's preamps are simply lacking high-end and I'm trying to compensate.

Or, perhaps you are losing some hearing in the higher frequencies and are compensating for it with eq?

No, I highly doubt my hearing's going.

Perhaps you could detail for us what you don't like about your current sound and how much you feel preamps are contributing to your problem. I would say that adding higher quality preamps (and bypassing the mixer completely) can give you a bigger, tighter, more defined sound. However, preamps are just part of the equation.

I was just wondering if I was missing something sonically. As the last poster suggests, that is definitely the case.

By the way, I re-recorded `Run' with a real acoustic guitar and such. Maybe I'll post it for you to critique, although I already know that it has a new set of problems. I should probably re-re-record it first.

I looked at the Sebatron vmp-2000e. I think I'd need the VU one for ~$300 more, which is more than I'm willing to invest on a pre-amp right now. Better to migrate from my 16-bit Fostex 16-track VF160 to a Sweetwater Creation Station, which would allow for 24-bit surround sound (+ far greater control of effects, levels, etc.) first, I think. The Sebatron's EQ is WEIRD: three settings for high, three settings for low. Not very flexible.

I was looking at the ART Pro Channel Tube Mic Preamp/Comp/EQ for $320 US, to be honest. I think common wisdom on this board has been to stay away from a tube preamp that's under $500 and go with a solid-state instead?

 

[snatchman]

Actually, I have a friend that have the Fostex unit and I personally think the on board pre-amps sound better than the ones on the Behringer.(YMMV) If you don't/can't get a outoard pre-amp now, I would use the ones on the Fostex until I could get a good pre!

 

[scrubs]

I was looking at the ART Pro Channel Tube Mic Preamp/Comp/EQ for $320 US, to be honest. I think common wisdom on this board has been to stay away from a tube preamp that's under $500 and go with a solid-state instead?

I'd say that's a fair assessment. The inexpensive tube pres are more gimmick than goodness. I do think that the Studio Projects VTB-1 is a solid inexpensive pre, tube or not. I also like the M-Audio DMP3. I don't know how much of a step up those would be over your behri, though. The Groove Tubes Brick is a real tube pre ($400 new) that is great on some things (vocals, bass di), but not everything. How many simultaneous channels do you need for recording? The Sytek pre has 4 channels for around $900 and is supposed to be very good. I tend to never track with eq, so I can't really advise on a unit with one built in. If you need a mixer, the Soundcraft mixers and Mackie Onyx mixers are supposed to have decent pres.

 

[daryle_ackerman]

I do think that the Studio Projects VTB-1 is a solid inexpensive pre, tube or not. I also like the M-Audio DMP3. I don't know how much of a step up those would be over your behri, though.

That's the thing. I'm not sure it's worth the $ to find out, either.

But I am thnking of switching to a computer setup. Is there a preamp/computer sound card combination out there that'll give a good stereo pre with EQ and output it in digital to the card at, say, 24 bit / 44 / 48 / 96 kHz? I guess it would have to use ADAT and/or SPDIF but I don't know if either of those formats support that high a bit depth and sampling rate.

 

[Rodger Hartlett]

save up for a great river and go the hi end.

 

[87PRS]

Euro Stage Mixers

Darryl, these mixers, are mediocre at best to mix a band. I don't understand why people interested in recording are buying gear that won't work in any studio environment. If you're going to record to comp get a great soundcard, ie RME and a great mic pres as already mentioned, forget about sitting in front of a huge consul. Capturing the sound quality is number one priority. Musicans are wasting money on fifty dollar gizmos. If it's worth recording, isn't it worth saving up a little extra to do it? There are no legitimate studio mixers for under $5KUS on a deal. JMHO