Should A Song Tell A Story

[mikeh]

There have been some recent discussions on writing thoery, "rules" etc. I've offered some opinions and crituqes and in at least one case the writer took offense. So it's only fair that I put something out to show what I think a song should do - and allow people to bash me

I have 3 rules I follow: 1) The song should tell a story with a beginning, middle & end, 2) When possible, the words should be desriptive enough to allow the listener to envison the scene & 3) I try to avoid love songs. Athough not a rule, I also seem to write about a darker side of life (I write about hookers, serial killings, and drug dealers and other "down and out people") - almost anything but love songs.

The following is about 15 years old. I think I'm a much better writer now and have learned to tell a story with less words - but I've always liked this story:

So, I welcome your input - in particular I interest in what Gary Sharp of Aaron Cheney may offer.

Vampire Lady

Verse 1
A crowded club, a stormy night, a shady part of town
I had no real plan in mind, just have fun and party down
I took a seat up near the bar, leaned back to watch the crowd
The lights were dim, the drinks were strong, the music much too loud
I've never been a drinking man and I've never lost control
But it didn't take too very long for the drinks to take a toll
Something in that smoky bar put me into a daze
I felt my senses slip away as I stared into her gaze

Bridge
She's a Vampire Lady, don't look into her eyes
A Vampire Lady, you know that isn't wise

Verse 2
An amazon with bright green eyes and long dark flowing hair
Dressed in black, a see through gown, I couldn't help but stare
She crossed the room, flashed a smile and said "are you alone"
I nodded yes, she took my hand, said "come on take me home"
I had my doubts just briefly, this didn't seem quite right
But something in those haunting eyes said this would be my night
So we drove into the darkness with her sitting oh so near
I felt her hot breath on my face as she whispered in my ear

Bridge
I'm a Vampire Lady, just what did you expect
A Vampire Lady, and I vant to bite your neck

Chorus
She's a Vampire Lady and she put the bite on me
I dread the thought of sun down, cause I know what I will be
A Vampire Lady has got me in her spell
She's got control of my mind and soul and she's putting me
Through living hell

Verse 3
I still spend my time in crowed bars in shady parts of town
But now I have a mission, victims to be found
When I stare into the crowd it's with and evil eye
If someone takes me home tonight, that someone's sure to die

Repeat Chorus

 

[NationalSandwic]

hi mike

i've got no problem with story telling in songs. have you listened to nick cave's 'murder ballads' album. i think it's great. brad roberts (crash test dummies) writes a lot of story songs, love them too.

i've done a couple myself, but can't remember them.

if i had a critique of your song here, i'd just say the rhyming scheme might get a little tired, and the bridge seems to have an 80's hair-metal vibe; not my taste, but if you dig it, cool.

 

[Feanor IV]

have you listened to nick cave's 'murder ballads' album. i think it's great.[/qoute]
Indeed!

As for the song, I think that first of all, you will have to work a bit on the rhythm because it's a bit weird at some points. I don't know, if this fits the music, then it's perfect, but it just feels a bit strange to me, without knowing the melody.....

 

[Garry Sharp]

Mike - I'm also happy to comment, but I would like to gently point out that Aaron is a successful commercial songwriter who teaches and writes books about it, whereas I am in the same boat as most of the other contributors here and I think that freely ignoring anything I say is a perfectly sensible thing to do. Also, I find it very difficult to feel for lyrics absent the music. (qv the two posts that followed yours, which sort of made exactly that point) Having said all that....

I thought that this is a good, hard, working lyric, I really liked it Do you listen to much of the older Steve Earle stuff? (there's a hit and miss exercise!)

Didn't like the second line of the bridge, I felt there was a missed opportunity there. "You know that isn't wise" - no, you can do better than that. You're in rhyme and theme rich territory here - diguise, lies, even despise..I don't know, try to be a bit more inventive, move onto something she is doing, make her more active.

Second verse - always difficult. OK, here's the big big question about your song, are you literal or metaphorical, is this "Werewolf in London" territory or is she a cipher for a girl who was superficially attractive but screwed your life up? (Sorry, I like to keep my questions simple)

If the former, then go with it, if the latter then I think you have some more work to do.

Good stuff though, I'm quietly hoping it isn't ACTUALLY about a vampire and you'll write some more depth into the second verse, but cool either way.

(But if it WAS a metaphor then your subsequent lines would all be about how you hate all women because of her and want to use the sneaky tricks you learnt from her to do damage. Now that would be really interesting. IMHO)

Hope that helps and as I say please ignore me if you don't like it

 

[nopoetic]

there is no set rule to writing songs, it might be what your interest is for it to tell a story, but its not a necessity by any means. theres many different styles. your "rules" to song writing are almost a problem. if someone pigeonholes themselves into that, its hard to expand your musicial horizons. my opinion of music and song writing is if what you do is misunderstood, then you're probably going in the right direction. you cant just do what everyone expects you to do. we wouldnt have the music we have today if everyone did that. like it or not, the unconventional breeds future popularity. its always important for people to expand their boundries.

 

[nopoetic]

by the way, i dont mean to attack your style of writing. im just pointing out that different styles are needed. you probably agree with me anyway. im just using your post as a platform to say that i think.

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

im just pointing out that different styles are needed.

I agree 110%. "Story Songs" are only one style. I'd personally hate to pidgeonhole myself that way. I participate in a few internet songwriting forums, and there's one guy in particular who writes only story songs. And although he rivals the best at doing so, I'm aware that many would like to see him demonstrate skill -- broaden himself -- in other approaches to songwriting. But he doesn't -- that's who he is. Like you, I used to write mostly about darker societal issues. Although I was told I've written some good ones, I'd also been told that maybe I should broaded my songwriting horizons. I interpreted that to mean that maybe people were a little bored by that style after a while. So, I've since written in many styles. IMO, there's nothing wrong in writing the occasional goofy, nonsense song. They can be fun that even the listener enjoys. Having said this, if writing story songs is all that interests you, be true to yourself. If you venture into other areas, it'll happen if/when you're ready.

 

[mikeh]

Thanks to all for your comments. I do understand that it is hard to judge lyrics without the benefit of music, unfortunately this was originally recorded on a Fostex 1/4" 8 track reel to reel with a refence mix dump to cassette. I did get value from your comments and I think all the comments were fair and accurate.

National,
It's interesting that you comment on the 80's vibe. When I look back at the copyright this was written mid 80's - although the concept was a "techno rap with metal guitar background" Thus the rhyme scheme was more forced than it could have been (trying to fit a rap groove). I agree the rhymes do get tired!

Feanor,
I agree that trying to read thru the lyrics with no idea of the cadance is difficult. As I said to National, it is almost a rap kind of groove - but it was written more as a "Fresh Prince" pop rap (I wrote it before the more hard core "Gangsta rap" established itself). I'm not a rap fan, but when it first came out, it interested me simply because it was something different.

Garry,
While you take pains to define Aaron's level of success from your own, I've found your various comments to reflect someone who takes the craft seriously - I respect your comments. Cetainly Aaron falls in a class above many on this site.

Sadly, this song is not clever enough to be a metaphor - it is about a vampire (although in hind sight I wish I would have been that clever!!!). I'm guessing I wrote this right around the time of Michael Jackson's Thriller. I always thought the 1st bridge "you know that isn't wise" was too cute. It was one of the last lines (written to balance the 2nd bridge) and by that time I'm sure I was getting lazy.

As both you and National point out some of the rhymes are not creative enough - I suspect in part the result of too many words. In trying to tell the story I had too much to say to find enough clever rhymes (perhaps another sign of lazy writing).

This song is almost 20 years old, which reflects my lack of songwriting maturity at that time (but I still like the story). I think my desire to tell a clear story was at the cost of more clever lyrics. I think most of my more recent things tell the story in less words, which allows for more selective use of words & rhymes. Although the stories tend to have more of an "adult theme" (serial killers, lonely old drunks, gambling addictions,etc).

During the last couple of years I've become a Steve Earl fan. You're right he can be hit or miss (which probably corresponds with his ups and downs as a drug addict) - but when he's good, he's really good.

Again, thanks to all - good comments all around.

 

[mikeh]

nopeotic & Cheeeky Monkey,

Thanks for your comments. Certainly you are correct that telling stories are only one style of writing. Perhaps my use of the word "rules" was overly restrictive (and certainly only apply to rules I apply to myself). I do try to direct my writing in that style, probably because some of the writers (and songs) that most influenced me often told great stories.

I do tend to write in more basic conversational tone. I envy those who can write whimsical phrases like - cascading whisps of velvet hair like drops of dew in the morning sun framed her angelic face (or whatever). I can't get my writer's brain to think that way. I don't talk that way, so I can't write that way.

At times, it does seem some writers try so hard to create poetic or mystic (choose the term you prefer) phrases to the point that the meaning of the song is lost to most listeners. As Garry pointed out, a song that can have more than one meaning or interpretation or images which serve as metaphors can be brilliant. However, I think writers must use caution so they don't cross the line from vague interpretation to blurred visions (lest they fail to connect with thier audiance).

Cheeky Monkey, I do sometimes try to write with some humor. Often even when I write of serious things I try to keep tongue firmly in cheek. You are very correct that whatever the style, we must be true to our vision and develop in our own ways.

I actually started this post as a followup to a post nopoetic had started (which generated some debate - regarding songs that don't have to be understood). My original intent was to perhaps defend the value of structured writing - Although, nopoetic's view that "if what you do is misunderstood, then you're going in the right direction" is interesting. I guess thoughout history in many fields, the people who were not "understood" in their time were in later years deemed to be genious (often after they had died) Naturally, there are many sides to any discussion.

I completely agree with both of you and appreciate your thoughts and comments.

 

[Aaron Cheney]

I would like to gently point out that Aaron is a successful commercial songwriter who teaches and writes books about it...

Cetainly Aaron falls in a class above many on this site.

You guys are killin' me! If you guys don't stop I'm gonna have to start buying extra plane tickets for my head. However, I should point out that I've yet to see my name on any big time record sleeves, so "successful commercial songwriter" might be a stretch. How 'bout if we settle for "dude in Seattle writin' songs"?

Anyway, as far as song types go, I think that there are three kinds of songs:

a) Story Songs - yep, you guessed it! Story songs tell a story. i.e. Rocky Raccoon, Boy Named Sue, Streets of Laredo, etc...

b) Situational Songs - these are story songs in disguise. They describe the situation the characters find themselves in by telling the story of how they got there in past tense. i.e. The Search is Over, Open Arms, etc...

c) Expressive Songs - These don't tell a story, but rather describe a feeling or emotion. i.e. Dust in the Wind, We're Not Gonna Take It, Annie's Song, etc.

(I apologize if my examples are obscure/goofy...I'm doing this off the top of my head!)

And to address your lyrics specifically, I think most of the comments so far are good ones. I would add:

The meter of your lines gives them an almost lilting quality, like cockney verse or a lymric. It's roughly the same meter as:

Jack Sprat could eat no fat and his wife could eat no lean
And so between the two of them they picked the platter clean

Nothing necessarily wrong w/ that, it just implies a certain feeling of light-heartedness that might work against the dark story you're trying to portray.

My other thought was that it is a bit wordy.

Perhaps work on the second suggestion first and in doing so the first will around about on its own.

A

 

[mikeh]

Aaron,

Thanks for your comments. It's interesting that you point out the lilting quality, which "works against" the dark story. Even when I write dark I try to have some tongue in cheek humor (in the phrasing or the melody, etc.) Looking at the lyrics after your comment, I do see the lymeric quality

I agree it is wordy - much wordier than I normally write.

I think each and every comment and suggestion (from all who signed in) was accurate and helpful - this is how we should try to work together, and try not to get too defensive.

I pulled this out of mothballs for the point of this discussion - but you have all helped me look at it in a different way.

Thanks to all who contributed your time and thoughts!!!