Shamrock recording tape

[Eric Altizer]

Has anybody here used Shamrock tape? Don't laugh I know it's not the greatest. This stuff is really bogging down my tape machines in the FF and RW modes. I believe this phenomenon is called "stiction" and I need to be careful with these recordings since they were made in the 1970's. I have heard that lubricating the tape can help but I have never tried it. Also the recordings are noisy and need restoration. The recording speed is 3.75 ips.

How can I clean up this mess?

 

[Beck]

Shamrock was made by Ampex, is very old and usually has sticky-shed syndrome.

Search the forum for "sticky shed" and "baking tape"

We've covered it in detail.

The tape is not dry or in need of lubrication. The binder has chemically broken down and needs to be baked in an oven to recover it if you want the music on them.

If you just want the tapes to reuse, do yourself a big favor and throw them away -- buy new Quantegy.

 

[Muckelroy]

AH! the mark of the Irish!

 

[Eric Altizer]

Actually the tape seems like it's in pretty good shape and the tape path is clean so far. It's just tough to rewind initially and plays a bit slow at the end of the reel. These were stored in the heads-out position (rewound) for over thirty years so that may have something to do with it. I don't think I'm ready to turn the on oven on just yet.

 

[The Ghost of FM]

I don't think I'm ready to turn the on oven on just yet.

Once you have a sounder knowledge of what turning on the oven actually entails when it comes to baking tapes, you may be closer to the moment of doing it for real.

Read this link for detailed info on the topic.

http://www.tangible-technology.com/tape/baking1.html

Cheers!

 

[Beck]

Actually the tape seems like it's in pretty good shape and the tape path is clean so far. It's just tough to rewind initially and plays a bit slow at the end of the reel. These were stored in the heads-out position (rewound) for over thirty years so that may have something to do with it. I don't think I'm ready to turn the on oven on just yet.

Sticky shed syndrome is insidious. It is often difficult to tell by looking at the tape or tape path. However, the tape path will eventually accumulate enough build-up for you to see a glue-like coating and possibly some brown oxide and slivers of back coating, depending on what type of tape it is.

Shamrock is one of the brands nearly always found in a sticky state, even sealed new-old-stock. Tapes running slowly or coming to a stop in play, FFW or RW… this is a textbook sign of sticky shed.

Playing tapes with sticky shed can physically damage them, causing a permanent loss of high frequency content, and significant edge damage causing a permanent loss of everything. Once a machine is contaminated you have a cleaning/maintenance nightmare on your hands, the likes of which you’ve never seen.

Take it from someone who first learned about this the hard way.

 

[Eric Altizer]

A "reel" sticky situation indeed

Great information and much appreciated Ghost and Beck. Those articles were eye opening and jaw dropping to be sure. I have a very large collection of tapes to archive of which many are Shamrock tapes. Now I know that I have to bake them before playing them. Then I will play them once on the transfer to digital hopefully just one pass. I was wondering since there are different stages of "sticky shed" at what point do you make the decision to bake them? I mean do you bake most all tapes before 1980 just as a precaution? I have a mix of high quality tapes and poor quality going back to the 1950s. I need to be able to decide when to bake them or not.

 

[The Ghost of FM]

As the saying goes, no point in going to the dentist once you're toothless.

The moral of the story?

Think of baking tapes at the early stages of decay and your tapes will stand a far better chance of being usable for a long, long time to come.

The alternative of waiting until the oxide is dripping off the backing is a bit late in the game to pin hopes on a healthy rescue.

Bake your tapes as early as possible and practical.

Cheers!

 

[Beck]

1950’s… as long as they are poly and not acetate you could bake them. Even if some aren’t sticky it won’t hurt them. Bake the Shamrock for sure.

I don’t have any experience with tapes from the 50's or 60's, but I’ve read that the binder that most of the manufacturers used was changed, early 70’s maybe (can’t remember), which caused the problem. Many older poly tapes from the 60’s don’t have sticky shed (so I hear).

The bad binder is found up to early 94. I’ve had to bake Ampex tape manufactured as late a 93. The tapes I’ve found to be sticky were all my Ampex from the 80’s, Sony SLH and ULH, older Scotch 226 and Capital Records “Music Tape.”

Tapes that have never been sticky (mine anyway) are Maxell UD and XL, BASF 468 and 911. Ampex made in late 94 (95 to be safe) and all Quantegy are good. Radio Shack tape is fine too.

Baking does work like a charm. I use a Nesco food dehydrator I bought at Wal-Mart. 130 degrees F for several hours.

 

[Eric Altizer]

baking time

Yeah I like the food dehydrator idea. Can you recommend a standard baking time or does that depend on the tape condition?

 

[Beck]

It depends on tape size and how many tapes you're treating at one time. The times in the link Ghost provided are as good as any. I've never flipped 1/4" though... just leave em in there for 4 hours.

You can't over bake as far as time, so you could go a little longer, 6 hours to be sure.

This what I use:

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=1120727

 

[arjoll]

Old tapes

I've found no problems with old 60's tapes - Zonaphone, BASF, Teletape, EMItape etc. Maxell from 70's and 90's has been fine, as Beck pointed out.

The only tape I've had problems with is 80's Ampex.

Don't bake acetate, but if it smells of vinegar keep it away from all other acetate tape and film and get it copied as soon as possible - vinegar syndrome is bad, bad news and unlike sticky shed good tape or film can 'catch' it from bad tape or film. Google "vinegar syndrome" for more detail.

 

[Eric Altizer]

I've found no problems with old 60's tapes - Zonaphone, BASF, Teletape, EMItape etc. Maxell from 70's and 90's has been fine, as Beck pointed out.

The only tape I've had problems with is 80's Ampex.

Don't bake acetate, but if it smells of vinegar keep it away from all other acetate tape and film and get it copied as soon as possible - vinegar syndrome is bad, bad news and unlike sticky shed good tape or film can 'catch' it from bad tape or film. Google "vinegar syndrome" for more detail.

hows-a-bout a vinegar syndrome/sticky shed combo in the same tape pack? Guess we all don't have to worry about that one eh

Is it true that there wasn't much problem with binder degradation in the 50's and 60's?

 

[arjoll]

hows-a-bout a vinegar syndrome/sticky shed combo in the same tape pack? Guess we all don't have to worry about that one eh

Fortunately acetate tape doesn't get sticky shed!

Is it true that there wasn't much problem with binder degradation in the 50's and 60's?

From what I understand (Beck is the expert on this topic) it wasn't until Ampex et al started fiddling with "greener" binder formulations in the 1970's that they started using untested binders which broke down in time. Earlier tape is generally ok, and that's what I've struck with my father's old tapes. The only tapes I have had problems with are Ampex tapes a friend at Rhema Broadcasting sent down with production beds around 10 years ago - the Zonal tape is fine, but some of the reels of Ampex are shot.

 

[Eric Altizer]

metal reel

Is it ok to bake a tape in the "heads-out" rewound position on a plastic reel? I wouldn't want to try to transfer a "sticky shed" tape to a metal reel.

 

[MadAudio]

Is it ok to bake a tape in the "heads-out" rewound position on a plastic reel? I wouldn't want to try to transfer a "sticky shed" tape to a metal reel.

That should present no problem. I've baked tapes on plastic reels and they came out just fine.

 

[Eric Altizer]

Cool...... let the baking begin!

 

[Eric Altizer]

I've found no problems with old 60's tapes - Zonaphone, BASF, Teletape, EMItape etc. Maxell from 70's and 90's has been fine, as Beck pointed out.

The only tape I've had problems with is 80's Ampex.

Don't bake acetate, but if it smells of vinegar keep it away from all other acetate tape and film and get it copied as soon as possible - vinegar syndrome is bad, bad news and unlike sticky shed good tape or film can 'catch' it from bad tape or film. Google "vinegar syndrome" for more detail.

Looks like I have several old tapes with "vinegar syndrome". I am reading some articles on it. This ain't no fun at all. Does anybody know if this will infect my tape machine? I have separated these tapes from my collection and I was successful at making one transfer already. Today I am going to start using gloves and a mask because this is really nasty. What have I gotten myself into here!

 

[MadAudio]

Vinegar syndrome can transfer itself to other acetate tapes! If you've already played one you need to do a vigorous cleaning of the entire tape path.

 

[Eric Altizer]

Vinegar syndrome can transfer itself to other acetate tapes! If you've already played one you need to do a vigorous cleaning of the entire tape path.

Thanks, I always clean the tape path after every transfer. How about storage? Do these tapes need to be stored in a metal canister? What procedures need to be followed? Circulation? I am researching this right now.