Seperation of instruments

[jonobacon]

Hi all,

I have been owndering about this for a while now - and some advice would be usefull.

I have been recording some tracks, and I am not happy with the mixing - I want to get that true feeling of seperation of instruments; at the moment it sounds like a big coagulated combination of the instruments and doesnt have that sheen and seperation.

Could anyone give me any hints on how to do this?

Jono

PS: People have mentioned in other posts about differing the frequencies on some tracks; how is this done and does this adi seperation?

 

[Track Rat]

You can try subtractive EQing. By making EQ cuts on some instruments you can carve out space for other instruments/voices. It works for me.

 

[jonobacon]

Doesnt this change the sound of the instrument a lot though?

When you say "cuts" what do you mean? Reducing bass and treble?

Jono

 

[mikeh]

I beleive what Track Rat was suggesting was subtle subtractive EQ. Certainly large EQ adjustments will alter sounds. Hopefully, you tracked correctly so that you don't really need much EQ in the mixing process - this way small adjustments may allow space for certain sounds (bass gtr vs. kick or guitar vs. keys, etc.)

Many people prefer subtractive EQ vs. added EQ, since boosting frequncies can also add noise.

Also, you can try selective use (or non use) of reverb (in conjunction with panning) to place sounds "up front" (less verb) or "in back" (more verb).

While not trying to over state the obvious - I find the better I track, the easier the mix is.

Good luck.

 

[volltreffer]

Separation can be a lot of things:

EQ (be it subtle or not and subtractive or not): the goal is to give each instrument its own frequency domain(s). You might think of removing everything (or some parts) of instruments that are not necessary for your song.

Stereo placement: a lot of the separation of instruments comes from a proper placement of the instruments in the stereo fields. It prolly gives you a better separation to spread mono tracks over the stereo image. Usually bass, snare, kick and vox are centered... YMMV

Depth placement: using ambient effects may help a lot in separation. The idea is to give instruments that are more in the back more reverb tail and less early reflections. In addition, usually some presence and bass is lost in the back...

Effects separation: Some effects like chorus give you a more distant feeling (-> depth placement) while others may help your track sting out...

Compression: different amounts of compression may give a different feel and help separate. Very often, a high compression allows you to turn the volume of a track down and preserve its hearability (->'exciting compressor' on this board). Backgrounds are very often very hard compressed...

And last but not least: ALWAYS tweak your sounds IN THE MIX and not on single tracks...

aXel

P.S.: There might also be arrangement problems, if your song does not blend. If you want that shine, you have to make sure, that there are instruments to carry it...

 

[Hardcore]

You can also get separation during the initial tracking. If you're doubling a guitar track, use different effects on each or a different pickup or something different to help them stand out from each other. And try to make sure you're bass tone doesn't eat up the same frequencies as you guitar tone. I've done that one a lot. That takes a lot of equing to fix and it still won't sound right.

 

[Chibi Nappa]

One more thing to consider is whether or not you want to actually use all of the tracks you recorded. At mixdown time I will frequently "throw away" doubled guitar tracks, hi hat mics, mics on the underside of the snare, room mics, extra "special effect" instruments, etc. You don't need to use everything you record, and if a track is creating more clutter than it is worth, get rid of it. You will have more space.

 

[christos]

I also think that panning location of each track can give a seperation effect especialy when (as others sugested) same instrument with difrent equilisations.......... it works for me

 

[bmorris]

so...

how about instruments that have the same frequencies but are panned to different "fields" of the mix? Is this a possible way to create space or should you still open up space with different frequencies? Hope this question is clear?

-Humble-

 

[fenix]

very good preamps help this problem too.

 

[TexRoadkill]

Doesnt this change the sound of the instrument a lot though?

Yes, if all the tracks' sound worked well together already you wouldn't be starting this thread. You need to change the sound so they mesh better.

That is assuming it's not all an arrangement issue.

 

[mikeh]

When you have different instruments in the same frequency one of the first questions may be "Do I need both these instruments?"

If you have already filled a frequency - maybe your job is done.

I can only speak for myself - but I'm sure many others have learned this also - "Less is More"

I often get too cariied away with large production and arranging, simply because I have way more tracks available than I really need. I then have too many sounds fighting for the same space.

As Chiba Nappa said - many times you don't need all the things you originally tracked. It is best to think the song through before hand and avoid recording things you don't really need. This then gives you the space you need for seperation.

 

[Hardcore]

Watch you're eq levels while you're mixing if you can (visually). If you can't I recommend going to Radio Shaq or something and picking up something that'll allow you to see you levels. If you've got mudd I'd bet that there will be a spike somewhere in the frequency chart. Or a dip. I know on a lot of my mixes the mudd is coming from a lack of sound at about 6 khz. I boosted around there (on my guitars) and it sounds much better (cutting is much better than boosting, but what'ya gonna do?). It'll make it much easier if you can actually see the frequency you should be trying to boost of cut rather than the trial and error method. Which is really effin hard to do.

 

[knightsy]

Using different mics/preamps helps too. If you record an entire track with vocals, guitars, bass, woodwind, whatever all on an SM57 through the preamps in your mixer, everything will have the same sonic footprint. If you record with different mics and preamps it will make things easier to mix - in fact if you mic things up correctly it will almost mix itself.

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

I have been recording some tracks, and I am not happy with the mixing...

Could anyone give me any hints on how to do this?

Another Blue Bear Sound Article - Mixing 101.......

 

[chessrock]

A pretty simplistic, yet wildly effective method I've stumbled upon . . .


While adding a track, try listening to it in the context of the other tracks you're mixing it in with.

If it covers another instrument up, or just doesn't quite occupy it's own distinct space in the mix . . . then do something to change it's tone untill it does.

On electric guitar, about 9 times out of 10, switching the pickup is like opening a whole new door, and it's the simplest thing you can do.