Room mic

[Bulls Hit]

This is my room mic, a Cascade condensor through a Universal Audio 4-710D. This is using the 100% valve setting, compressor is set to fast. It's untreated, straight from the mic to mp3. Distortion plus

This is the same recording of the other mics without the room mic. No eq or any processing except some panning of the OHs and toms

This has the room mic mixed in at -6db

This is all mics set flat

 

[rob aylestone]

Yep, sounds pretty much like I guessed. Turn off the compressor, sort out the distortion, calm down the room, fix the mic balance and spend some time removing the boom and gloom.

What use would this be? It just sounds loud and totally out of control. It isn't something that will respond to EQ very well, and is just a bit of a mess? Sorry to be glum - but is that a $100 or $10,000 kit? No idea from the recording. I have always found personally that drums are the absolute hardest things to record. The room that records a guitar or piano nicely is often horrible for drums - where everything bounces around and it gets messy - like this recording.

Are you looking for advice on treating the room, deadening the kit, finding the right mic position or what? Before you experiment with compression. and valve distortion, I'd sort the rest first - I agree with the 'distortion plus' comment. Was that an accident or intention?

 

[Bulls Hit]

Was that an accident or intention?

The distortion is accidental, and it is totally out of control, probably why I like it . Weird thing is I have another of the same kind of mic that I use as one of the overheads, and it doesn't sound anything like this through the same amp. I use this mic to blend with the rest of the kit when I want more room and boom

 

[rob aylestone]

Ah - I see. I'm just old school and can't do the grunge style stuff. I'll leave it for those who understand it better!

 

[VomitHatSteve]

What use would this be? It just sounds loud and totally out of control.

Have you listened to Bulls' mixes? That's his style!

So for doing more of your loud, garage-synth mixes, this would be cool.
If you're going for a more "conventional" drum sound, I think the first thing to address is going to be your drums themselves. They're very boomy, especially the kick. Make sure everything's tuned up; get some dampening going on. Probably position the mic so it gets a little less kick. Better hats wouldn't hurt.

 

[rob aylestone]

Got it! Understand what he's doing now.

 

[andrushkiwt]

Got it! Understand what he's doing now.

Enlighten me, because I've heard this same sound for awhile from him and I still don't get it.

Dude... you have good riffs and tunes. But you're destroying them with the recordings. Please stop compressing everything so much, it does not sound good. It's not "hmm, a little less compression, perhaps, might sound better"... It's "jesus mot%$#^kr what the $%$ is going the f$%$# on?"

 

[Bulls Hit]

.... "jesus mot%$#^kr what the $%$ is going the f$%$# on?"

Haha. Exactly the reaction I'm going for!

 

[andrushkiwt]

Haha. Exactly the reaction I'm going for!

Yeah, but I don't listen again. I hear it once and move on. If it were better recorded, I would absolutely listen over and over. I'm trying to tell you, it's ruining the whole thing. Great music and riffs, horrendous butchering of the mix.

 

[Bulls Hit]

... I'm trying to tell you, it's ruining the whole thing. ...

OK but you can't blame one compressed room mic for butchering a mix. I have 7 other mics, all equally capable of ruining the whole thing..

 

[Bulls Hit]

...Probably position the mic so it gets a little less kick.

The mic is pointed into a corner at the moment - I'm experimenting with different positions. I quite like the way it enhances the kick's boom.
Dampening is what I used to do - my first Pearl kit had dampers built into every shell. But now I let 'em ring baby! I'm trying to tune the drums so they sound good undamped..

 

[Bulls Hit]

Better hats wouldn't hurt.

That hurt me Steve. Ow I've had these zildjian bad boys since .. well 90s at least .

 

[GONZO-X]

bulls,

some folks do not understand what it is you are using the room mic for (tho i think it's pretty obvious)

what would be way cool,
was if you posted the full kit 'final' mix, with the room mic added in, say, 3 different levels.....
barely there, even, and up front.

then folks could listen to your compressed room mic track again, and hear it in the mix the way you will use it, and go
why i could have had a V8.

 

[Bulls Hit]

Hey Gonzo good idea.

I've edited the original post and added three clips with varying levels of room mic nastiness

 

[GONZO-X]

This is my room mic, a Cascade condensor through a Universal Audio 4-710D. This is using the 100% valve setting, compressor is set to fast. It's untreated, straight from the mic to mp3. Distortion plus

This is the same recording of the other mics without the room mic. No eq or any processing except some panning of the OHs and toms

This has the room mic mixed in at -6db

This is all mics set flat

yea

i like the room mic at -6 the best....
my guess is, if i was mixing the drums, i'd go even less on the room,
just because a little goes a long way...
but that makes the kit sound pretty beefy in a punky kinda way.

you can take this exercise to the bank.

 

[Stratomaster]

I don't understand the negative comments because i really like this type of drum sound, not the solo'd distorted room alone as much as having that sound as an element to mix into the closer mic'd sounds. Led Zeppelin and more recently the Flaming Lips use this kind of drum sound and i always liked it. I listened to all 4 clips and i like the room mic at -6, i think that's a pretty good base to build a track around and is part of your particular sound.

 

[Bulls Hit]

yea

i like the room mic at -6 the best....
my guess is, if i was mixing the drums, i'd go even less on the room,
just because a little goes a long way...
but that makes the kit sound pretty beefy in a punky kinda way.

you can take this exercise to the bank.

Heh yeah less of the room would be the more optimal blend. It's a bit like beer though, always the temptation to enjoy more

 

[Bulls Hit]

I don't understand the negative comments because i really like this type of drum sound, not the solo'd distorted room alone as much as having that sound as an element to mix into the closer mic'd sounds. Led Zeppelin and more recently the Flaming Lips use this kind of drum sound and i always liked it. I listened to all 4 clips and i like the room mic at -6, i think that's a pretty good base to build a track around and is part of your particular sound.

I posted the room mic clip so ppl could hear what I have to deal with when mixing
I do get a lot of feedback on my mixes being too compressed and I was trying to show why they sound like that. However I didn't clearly state that in the post, so I can understand the negative reaction.
But I'm like you - love that Zeppelin drum sound, Beastie Boys... distortion and sounds that border on out of control. It's about taming the beast, and sometimes he gets away...

 

[Tom Cavanaugh]

It all depends on what you're going for. To me, this sounds very low/mid and boxy sounding, even without the room mic it sounds the same to me. I would start by taming down all the ring on your kit. You can always add room verb ambiance later in context with the song, But start with a clear/dry drum mix, otherwise you're stuck with what you got which IMO has no presence or warmth what so ever. Get the cleanest/warmest tones for each drum that you can without any eq/comp by tuning your drums correctly and using some moon gel as well as different angles on the mics. Try bringing your overhead mics down as close to the kit that you can which will help eliminate the room noise. Once you got it sounding decent without any processing, use a 6 band EQ on each drum and use a sharp Q, boost it up hot and sweep across each section to find any overtones that you want to cut, usually -3 to -6db cut will do it while keeping the Q fairly sharp when you cut. Once you have all those ugly overtones eliminated I would Split the Overheads, pan your toms, and do a very slight pan left on your kick and very slight pan right on your snare. At this point route your whole kit to a stereo submix where you can then EQ your entire kit as a whole. EQ it in the context of your song, not soloed. If your kit is tuned up right and you get rid of that ugly room noise, you really don't need to compress your original tracks, just comp the submix and that's where you plug in any EQ or efx you need. With drums, less is best with the processing. If you feel you want a room mic, by the sound of this, I would get the mic up closer to your kit. Try different angles around the kit and record a bit, keep moving the mic around, different angles, different heights. You may find a sweet spot where that boxy sound isn't so prominent. What I'm hearing is major overtones in the low/mid area, so you could do a wide Q slight cut from 250-500 area on the submix. Good Luck and lets hear it again after trying this!

 

[Tom Cavanaugh]

How to mix drums

It all depends on what you're going for. To me, this sounds very low/mid and boxy sounding, even without the room mic it sounds the same to me. I would start by taming down all the ring on your kit. Place some corner baffle in your room. You can always add room verb ambiance later in context with the song, But start with a clear/dry drum mix, otherwise you're stuck with what you got which IMO has no presence or warmth what so ever. Get the cleanest/warmest tones for each drum that you can without any eq/comp by tuning your drums correctly and using some moon gel as well as different angles on the mics. Try bringing your overhead mics down as close to the kit that you can which will help eliminate the room noise. Once you got it sounding decent without any processing, use a 6 band EQ on each drum and use a sharp Q, boost it up hot and sweep across each section to find any overtones that you want to cut, usually -3 to -6db cut will do it while keeping the Q fairly sharp when you cut. Once you have all those ugly overtones eliminated I would Split the Overheads, pan your toms, and do a very slight pan left on your kick and very slight pan right on your snare. At this point route your whole kit to a stereo submix where you can then EQ your entire kit as a whole. EQ it in the context of your song, not soloed. If your kit is tuned up right and you get rid of that ugly room noise, you really don't need to compress your original tracks, just comp the submix and that's where you plug in any EQ or efx you need. With drums, less is best with the processing. If you feel you want a room mic, by the sound of this, I would get the mic up closer to your kit. Try different angles around the kit and record a bit, keep moving the mic around, different angles, different heights. You may find a sweet spot where that boxy sound isn't so prominent. What I'm hearing is major overtones in the low/mid area, so you could do a wide Q slight cut from 250-500 area on the submix. Good Luck and lets hear it again after trying this!