Roe vs Wade Overturned

RFR said:
Well, we are a country. A bit dysfunctional, but a country we are.

Constitutionally, states are supposed to have the power and the federal govt has limited powers.
But like the cancer it is, it’s grown out of control


Yes, but there’s a bit of hypocrisy there.
Re: the jab mandates , where was the “my body, my choice” then?

As to abortion, there’s two bodies involved. One gets killed for the benefit of the other.

It’s not like the growing baby is a tumor, it’s a living person just not fully developed.
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Nobody forced you to vaccinate.
Were you restricted to where you could go?
Yup.
 
famous beagle said:
The vaccine mandates aren't quite a direct comparison, because of the ability for someone to infect others with a disease that has killed a lot of people.

I mean .. take it to another level. What if a disease hit with something crazy like a 50% mortality rate? Or higher? Would a vaccine mandate be acceptable then?

But I do agree with you about two bodies being involved. I never could understand why people would use that as an argument (don't tell me what to do with MY body). I mean ... sure .. the government shouldn't tell you what to do like that. But, in this instance, it's not just YOUR body. It's clearly two bodies, one of which has no voice at all.

That said, I don't know that I could outlaw all abortion. I personally would never want my wife to get one (thankfully neither would she), but I'm glad I don't have to be the one who makes the law.

The thing is, there's a bit of a disconnect. A women's body will naturally abort a pregnancy regularly, before it's even really gotten started, because it wasn't viable. Yet conservatives also often argue against birth control, which would, in essence, stop many of those naturally occurring abortions.
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The vaccine mandate example was directed specifically at Ed Fones statement of the state not having the right to tell you what to do with your body.

I don’t want to get into the whole vaxx thing as that may be more complicated than the abortion issue.

But yes it was forced on people violating the principle of the state having no right over your body.

Maybe there was no one to lock you up if you didn’t comply, but there were definitely state and corporate punitive measures enacted if you weren’t a good boy and rolled up your sleeves.

As to the scotus situation, there’s no outlawing of abortion. Individual states can do it all they want, or not.

I was just pointing out the hypocrisy of “my body, my choice.
 
This is all over the UK TV news today.
Should women have a choice?
Yes, and they do have a choice. They can choose whether or not to engage in activities that lead to having babies.
But, when women are killing their own babies, it is time to stand back and take a look at where they're heading.
I have no objection to these women ending their own lives.
 
Slouching Raymond said:
Should women have a choice?
Yes, and they do have a choice. They can choose whether or not to engage in activities that lead to having babies.
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They need more than that.. when your hormones are raging.. There are unforeseen happenings.

Many young women I knew in our crowd had multiple abortions before the age of 18. .

It sounds bad, but there was some Ricki Lake, Sally Jessie shit going down. They were scared.
 
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I’ll leave this thread with this.

This is a major distraction. All eyes are in this topic.

Every other fucked up thing in this world is still going on, and we’re all focused on this. Next week or month, it will be something else

Supply chain problems, inflation, energy costs, fuel costs, possible military entanglement in the Ukraine leading to god knows what, corrupt politicians, everything the world economic forum is up to, and on and on.

I have no desire to further contribute to the divide this is causing.

The people running the show use every trick to divide us and keep us at each other’s throats, while they implement the world changes that they want.

And we’ll be less free.
 
RFR said:
This is a major distraction. All eyes are in this topic.
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I hope it is not a stunt to detract attention from NATO's involvement in Ukraine. A building nuclear conflict.

Lets not put it past them. Might could be.
 
famous beagle said:
The vaccine mandates aren't quite a direct comparison, because of the ability for someone to infect others with a disease that has killed a lot of people.
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but YES they are DIRECTLY comparible.
The "unwanted unborn children" are supposedly a menace to society.

 
famous beagle said:
Hmm... not really, but ... ok.
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The only difference I see is that a woman has a choice for an abortion.
If abortion was mandatory then it would be the same thing as the mandatory jab.
bad children kill people and bad germs kill people.
They both started out as single cell organisms.
Abortion is intrusive, and the jab is intrusive.
So what's the diff, besides one being voluntary and the other not being voluntary?
It looks like another leftist hypocrisy.
There are so many.
The left can't even see it and that explains all the rest.
 
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WWLaidback said:
bad children kill people and bad germs kill people.
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You can't be serious with this. I mean ... that's REALLY reaching.
But ... whatever. I don't really want to get into a big drawn out debate about it.
Ok ... "bad children" kill people the same way an infectious virus does. Sure ... sounds good.
 
famous beagle said:
You can't be serious with this. I mean ... that's REALLY reaching.
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Abortion is here to get rid of the undesirables.
So check out this guy over at rumble:

abortion3.png

famous beagle said:
But ... whatever. I don't really want to get into a big drawn out debate about it.
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Good. We already covered this anyway in the Transgender thread.

famous beagle said:
Ok ... "bad children" kill people the same way an infectious virus does. Sure ... sounds good.
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Bad children introduce unwanted bullets into other people.
Okay so the particle size of a bullet is much larger than a germ.
Is that supposed to matter to a dead person?

You say the anology is broken, and I say your moral compass is broken.
There is no reason to debate. We can just agree to disagree.
 
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WWLaidback said:
Abortion is here to get rid of the undesirables.
So check out this guy over at rumble:

View attachment 117780


Good. We already covered this anyway in the Transgender thread.


Bad children introduce unwanted bullets into other people.
Okay so the particle size of a bullet is much larger than a germ.
Is that supposed to matter to a dead person?

You say the anology is broken, and I say your moral compass is broken.
There is no reason to debate. We can just agree to disagree.
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You're implying that every unwanted child that's born turns into a murderer, which is ridiculous. That's where the analogy is broken.
Every virus, however, will do its best to kill the victim. That's the difference.
 
famous beagle said:
Ok ... "bad children" kill people the same way an infectious virus does. Sure ... sounds good.
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Here's another way to look at it:
Observation 1: Covid vaccination intrudes into a human body and it is mandatory for certain rights in society like travel, public meetings etc.
Premise 1: A person with covid might give it to someone else (bad outcome) and might not (neutral outcome).

Observation 2: Abortion intrudes in the body and it is a choice.
Premise 2: A pregnant girl might have a criminal for a kid (bad outcome) or they could be so-so (neutral outcome), or they could become a surgeon (good outcome).

Given that there could be a good outcome from a preganancy, and there are no good outcomes from covid infection, why should abortion be allowed at all?
 
famous beagle said:
You're implying that every unwanted child that's born turns into a murderer, which is ridiculous. That's where the analogy is broken.
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Yeah isn't it though, and it's a foundational tenet of your own abortion platform.
It has been the left's argument for decades -- to justify abortion.
The merciful thing is to terminate the unwanted pregnancy, and reduce human suffering, so they say.
I wish I had a dollar for every time I've heard it from the left, along with "it's my body", and "what two consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedroom is nobody else's business".
We hear those arguments LIKE MORAL AXIOMS -- until they're no longer convenient.
Then they are conveniently compartmentalized and boxed up until the coast is clear again, so they can be brought out anew.
The hypocrisy is stunning.
 
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WWLaidback said:
Yeah isn't it though, and it's a foundational tenet of your own abortion platform.
It has been the left's argument for decades -- to justify abortion.
The merciful thing is to terminate the unwanted pregnancy, and reduce human suffering, so they say.
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First of all, it's not my own abortion platform. Have I said I'm pro choice? I do tend to lean left, but I'm anti-abortion in general. It's certainly hard to make a steadfast law outlawing all abortion, however, as there are so many variables and nuances. As I said before, I'm glad I'm not the one who has to make the law.

Secondly, I've actually rarely heard that argument to justify abortion. I much more frequently hear the "My body, my choice!" argument.

It is awfully convenient, also, how men, who are just as much at fault for creating unwanted pregnancies as women, can pretty much sidestep the whole issue, disappear from the scene, and get away scot-free, with relatively little impact on their lives. Actually, they're likely more at fault in this issue because they can impregnate as many women as they wish, whereas a women is limited by biology at least a bit.

Here's a thought. Instead of asking women to be celibate or practice safe sex and placing 100% of the responsibility on her, how about this: Mandatory vasectomies for all males at the age of 15! Once you've been married for a year, you're allowed to get a reversal. :)
 
famous beagle said:
Secondly, I've actually rarely heard that argument to justify abortion.
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It's used to comfort young girls through the grieving stage when they terminate a pregnancy.
Like hey, she did the best thing for everyone including the baby that would have been a bad person.
You mostly hear it in the far left circles like this article from the Atlantic, a far-left magazine.

Are Abortions Good For Society? This Reader Thinks So.

None
www.theatlantic.com www.theatlantic.com

"As much as we’d like to believe otherwise, babies are not guaranteed to grow up to be good people. They are not guaranteed to make life better for others, or to be happy, or to do anything positive whatsoever. Many people, despite receiving love and care from their parents, will make society worse."

So it even happens in a good home (that a pregnant teenager could never provide).
Now ms. 15 year old, if that happens in a good home, imagine what happens in a bad home.
So here you are pregnant; do the right thing and end the misery before it gets any worse (so it goes).
 
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