RNC or nice VST?

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DanRoy

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do you think my money would be better spent on an affordable hardware compressor like the FMR RNC, or on a nice VST like the Kjaerhus golden or PSP vintage warmer?

I'm thinking a VST would be simpler to use (no need for routing and rerecording...but less knobs on the RNC, which for me might be a plus) perhaps more versatile?, and less permanent (always tweakable as an insert), but would also cut into CPU power, hmm?

I'm thinking also maybe some analog in my chain would do me good.

i'm still learning about compression, is it generally not advised to compress while tracking? or what scenarios is this recommended for? this is one thing an RNC can do that a VST can't
 
I think an outboard compressor is good to have. I use mine (an RNC) to track vocals mainly, but it can also be used on snare and other things if you want to impart a different sound during tracking. That said, I use plug-in compressors quite a bit too, so it's good to have both.
 
There's really no easy answer (unless it's "both"). A decent outboard compressor is useful for dynamic vocalists/instruments, and such, but you can get by without it. However, once you've clipped the signal, no amount of VST compression will fix it. The RNC in "Really Nice Mode" is cool in that it compresses without killing the high-end. A good investment, IMO.

Having good software compressors is helpful, too. I'm getting by with freebies now, but I know there are nicer ones out there.
 
The RNC will retain some value, the VST will not.
 
If you are mixing in the box, I say get the VST compressor first. Especially since it sounds like you are not too familiar with compression in general. Getting the VST would allow you to learn and use a compressor in a non destructive environment, and would allow you to use it more than once. Once you have a handle on that and get more experience, maybe than look into an RNC and start tracking with it. Personally, I never track with a compressor for dynamic control. I track with comps quite often, but it's always for tone shaping. Dynamic control should be addressed with performance, and proper gain and mic selection.
 
The RNC in "super nice" mode is an amazing thing. None of my software broadband compressors sound nearly as good.

I sometimes use it as a safety limiter, and it's really handy when I'm recording myself and don't want to keep looking at the meters. Unlike a lot of gear, you can't hear it in the signal chain until it kicks in with some gain reduction, and then it doesn't squeeze the sound out of shape, just levels it out a little.

Tim
 
I second the RNC. Get 2 with the funk logic rack from mercenary audio. I find I always go to the outboard compressors first, then I use the VSTs when/if I need more... and I don't have to worry about software depreciation or OS/driver incompatabilities.

Jay
 
My experience with buying audio gear (for about three decades, now) has taught me that if you buy quality analog gear, it lasts forever, and holds it's value very well. (My Rane DC24 is actually worth more NOW than when I bought it, and that was a looooong time ago.) Digital gear of any kind, but especially software programs become obsolete as soon as the next software revision or the next "latest, greatest thing" comes out. Plus, you'll find it rather difficult to use that VST compressor when you're playing live in a band.

I'd vote for the RNC.

Brad
 
Digital Fish Phones

If you are in a quandry regarding compression, you are not alone. Although I have never fussed much with hardware compressors, I have used a number of software ones. My favorite by far is the Digital Fish Phones - endorphin. It is totally free and comes as close to a hardware unit as far as I can determine. Software compressors just don't seem to measure up to what a good studio compressor can do. Save yourself a few bucks and learn how to use endorphin. It appears to be a close approximation of what a good hardware compressor can do for a nice round figure of zero dollars. I have the Kjaerhus compressor and endorphin is, surprisingly better. At least thats what my ears tell me. And no - the Fish Fillets compressor does not work as well as the endorphin compressor.
I'm assuming you have good ears, convertors, monitors know how to set a compressor?

Bob

www.digitalfishphones.com
 
Bassman Brad said:
My experience with buying audio gear (for about three decades, now) has taught me that if you buy quality analog gear, it lasts forever, and holds it's value very well. (My Rane DC24 is actually worth more NOW than when I bought it, and that was a looooong time ago.) Digital gear of any kind, but especially software programs become obsolete as soon as the next software revision or the next "latest, greatest thing" comes out. Plus, you'll find it rather difficult to use that VST compressor when you're playing live in a band.

I'd vote for the RNC.

Brad
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This is all true, and has been my experience as well. However, there are so many good free VST plugins I don't see why it isn't possible to have both. The Digital Fishfones stuff is excellent, and there's tons more out there.

So download a pile of freeware VST's and carefully audition them all. Pick the best few and use them. Alongside this, get the RNC. If at a later time you feel you need a different/better plugin, then at that point try out a bunch of the paid plugins.

I use the Sonalksis compressor and the PSP Vintage Warmer. Otherwise, it's all hardware.
 
There are definately some decent software comps available on the market now. When I am looking for a software compressor I test them by how transparent they are. Most any software comp works just fine with smaller ratios and faster attacks. However, a lot of them start to sound very unnatural if you get into any higher ratios. Thats one reason I like the UAD 1176 and La2a. They sound better to me than all the other software comps because I feel that I can really dig into them without pumping as much or without all the extra grainy sounding harsh artifacts.

What I don't like about software comps is they don't seem to be nearly as usable as any of the hardware comps when it comes to tone shaping. If I were to want to use a compressor to really shape a bass tone I actually feel like I could get more tone shaping out of an Alesis 3630 than even the UAD comps. By no means does this mean I would use a 3630 ( there's a beautiful distressor in my rack that just begs to be used for just that purpose:D ), and this does not mean that I don't use and love the UAD comps. It just means that I have to use them differntly than I would if I had the outboard versions. The PSP Vintage Warmer is a little different in this respect. It's not really just a software compressor. It has settings that hardware compressors don't have that allow direct shaping of the signal tone instead of just compressing. I personally think this is why so many people seem to like it. It's not just a one trick pony.

In thinking about it, I need to sit down and figure out how to load a comp on an insert and then add something to a sidechain. A pultec pro EQ sidechained to an 1176 seems like it would sound pretty nice:) Except i don't think the 1176 has a sidechain feature:( Anyone know what decent software comps have sidechain functionality and how I would do something like that on an insert?
 
Hey DanRoy (OP),

What sources are you going to use the compressor on?

Some compressors are good at controlling levels without changing the tone color, and would be useful for say, classical piano. Some are good at shaping or thickening the tone but can't control levels without changing the tone a lot.

What do you need?

Tim
 
some good advice here

the main thing I want to record is myself and the people who back me up whenever I can scrounge them. the style is rock, drums bass keyboard sounds (strings, horns, organs, choir, sustainy sounds in general) and acoustic and electric guitars, and voice of course. I have a piano in my room, but it is horrible, so i don't record it much. eventually i might start to record other people, starting with acoustic singers and eventually when my setup is more mobile and i have more mics, possibly larger rock bands.

I frequently like to compress acoustic guitar tracks quite heavily. and some electric songs just beg for a big squashing master limiter. but many times I don't like the sound of a heavily compressed electric guitar. also sometimes I think a compressor sounds really good on voice (I crank blockfish, but sometimes I get these harsh artifacts(?) that make me sad)
 
I frequently like to compress acoustic guitar tracks quite heavily. and some electric songs just beg for a big squashing ... also sometimes I think a compressor sounds really good on voice (I crank blockfish, but sometimes I get these harsh artifacts
Click to expand...

Have you tried putting two or three of the same compressor in sequence? Can work really well for more intense compression. I think the Blockfish compressor works better that way.

For a tone shaping compressor, I agree with Bob that Endorphin is good. It's a split band compressor, and has meters that show the gain reduction happening in each frequency band (really helpful when you're learning about compression). Good at making thin things sound fat. Freeware too.

To my ear a lot of plugins put a veil over the sound, separate from whatever they do as a processor or effect. Moreso with freeware plugins IME.

Tim
 
Have you tried putting two or three of the same compressor in sequence? Can work really well for more intense compression. I think the Blockfish compressor works better that way.
Click to expand...

Isn't this sort of similar to how the RNC works in SuperNice mode?
 
I think there are times when you really need an outboard compressor, for example: tracking certain types of vocals and for bass and sometimes electric guitar. Having a compressor lets you capture wider dynamic range in one performance without risk of screwing it up with digital clipping.

Once you have a take recorded into your PC, then you can use VST compressors. But first you have to get it in there, and VSTs don't do any good at all in that situation.


P.S.
There are some pretty nice free VST compressors out there. The Kjaerhus classic compressor, and the ones by digital fishphones mentioned above for example. I think a combination of a RNC and the free VST compressors would get you going nicely....
 
I'd say the RNC, because, like others have said, it will retain some value. If you end up not liking it in 2-3 years, you can resell it at probably close to what you bought it for. It will also help you learn how a compressor works much better - and the RNC sounds better than virtually any clean VST comp I've ever heard or used, including the very good Kjaerhus comps. A little RNC compression on the way in to your DAW can help tame overload peaks and is hardly noticable, so you'll get better sounding tracks from the get go.
PSP's Vintage Warmer is a different animal altogether - not something I'd consider very utilitarian, but a nice tool to have nonetheless.
The digital fish phones stuff is lots of fun - and free!
 
amra said:
Having a compressor lets you capture wider dynamic range in one performance without risk of screwing it up with digital clipping.
Click to expand...
How so? A compressor is a device that limits dynamic range.
 
cominginsecond said:
How so? A compressor is a device that limits dynamic range.
Click to expand...

Right, it captures the wide range by compressing it into a narrower range that can be recorded.

As for me, I'd rather have the soft compressors, since the 100dB+ range of 24 bits is fine for me. The price of two RNCs = one UAD-1, and that's about the same number of channels using the hungriest UAD plugs. That way I get a selection of compressors, EQ, and effects to boot.
 
I have and use both.

To be honest, I didn't use my RNC much until I started mixing analog again. Its just too easy to slap a "1176" on every track in sight then deal with patching in the better sounding RNC on ONE track.

Now I have 2 RNC's and an RNLA (and a couple dbx compressors) and I only use plugs when I run out of hardware. Fun.

Your choice. The Fishfones stuff IS excellent. I'd try it and see if you still want a hardware compressor. If you are recording 24 bit then you don't have to worry too much about clipping on the way it-just back off your levels and you'll still have plenty of resolution in your tracks. If you're recording 16 bit, then concider the RNC and track through it: your tracks will sound much better once you get the hang of it. I do that regularly with tape.

Enjoy!
Chris
 
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