Ribbon Mic ... Which One Then??!

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Anybody got any thoughts on & recommendations as to what RIBBON mic I should buy? I recently had the good fortune to sing through an old RCA 44D & I tell ya - there's no going back! Well there is in reality I'm afraid - there's NO way I could ever afford (nor justify) a microphone of this calibre plus even if I could they're as rare as hens teeth around these parts! What I do know however is that I now definitely want a DECENT ribbon mic for vocal & acoustic recording duties in my home studio environment. I'm looking for that 'retro' vibe (a la sixties style sonics, Dylan, Byrds, etc) & was wondering what folks recommend. I don't have much money to throw at this but I do want a 'keeper' & I'm prepared to throw what little I do have at it plus sell a few things in order to get the right mic for me. Just to give you an idea I've been using a RODE NTK valve condenser which I used for all the vocals/acoustics on my last home produced album (visit: www.myspace.com/super8musicuk). It seemed to do an admirable job BUT I've got it into my head that the next albums are gonna feature a quality ribbon mic & the NTK can be used as my room mic (or even get sold to raise ribbon funds!) So .... anybody got any thoughts/recommendations then? Vintage or new? Large or small diaphragms? Perhaps the best of the bunch in each price bracket? All I can find to date is a small Reslo mic in a local pawn shop that I've heard aren't really that great (even though the guy wants 100 GBP and is trying to sell it as 'The original Beatles' Mic!' Any thoughts much appreciated. How best can I spend what little shekels I have on a microphone of calibre that's gonna last me a long time - no more swapping about? THANKS IN ADVANCE! TRiP
 
You thought Hens teeth were rare, find a bird with braces man...now that's rare.

Shiny Box http://www.shinybox.com/ShinyBox46.php is one that comes to mind. You can get one from them with optional/choices of output transformers. If you end up with any bargain ribbon, consider replacing the transformer with a Lundahl or Jensen. This is an effective and easy mod to make.
 
Depends on how many shekels you have to spend. If you want something you won't have to upgrade, I'd suggest something along the lines of the AEA R84. The cheaper ribbons (Shinybox, Nady, Cascade, etc.) are fine on a budget and will get you a ribbon sound at a decent price, though.
 
The Beyer m-500 is a great choice....I've been using them for over 30 years....
 
I think a ribbon mic might be next on my list. Maybe some different dynamics but a ribbon is up there. sorry continue on with this great thread and my meaningless post.
 
Im sure it will end up being a somewhat wasted 130 bucks, but that Apex 210 is calling me... so tempted... need more cheap microphones...

Hmm... I forgot that I didnt see the Apex mics recommended in this thread... as usual, this is a copy of 90 previous, similiar conversations, so I went back and found a nice long post about ribbons, and a couple people were impressed with the Nady / Apex / Chinese mics, considering the cost.
 
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For vocals, +1 for the Beyer M500. The M260 is also decent, although the older ones have a pretty flat response (which may or may not be what you are looking for). The new ones (which used to be denominated the M260.80) have built in bass roll-off, which may be fine for speaking, but is not my preference for singing. The M500 has a bit of a presence peak and is only available used so you wiould need to do a bit of digging around to find one. There seem to be lots of them out there however.
 
Grab a Beyer 160 or 260 or 500

Hey Kenny,
excuse my ignorance, but was wondering about these.
If these are cardiod and are used for live use sometimes,
do they sound different then other ribbons?
I was under the impression that the figure 8 pattern was a big
part of the ribbon sound.
 
After doing some listening on that Cascade site I have to wonder a bit--They do a track comparison between a Fathead and an SM57 on a guitar cab. The difference is pretty stark...Then they go on to demonstrate each mic'd guitar solo track in the mix, followed by the two guitar tracks (the same take tracked by the two mics) blended and added to the mix...And commenced to recommending that the Fathead be used in conjunction with the 57...

I realize that this isn't anything new, and that many sources are recorded simultaneously with multiple mics, but is this a good way to promote their product, giving the impression that an additional purchase of a competitor's product is necessary to optimize performance?

...And additionally, is this a common characteristic of ribbons? I'd like to hope not.

Just curious...

Eric
 
If the RCA 44 is your idea of what you want from the ribbon experience, here are my observations. For what it's worth, I have quite a few ribbon mics, including the AEA R44 and R84, Shure SM33/333, Shure 300, and Beyerdynamic M160/260/500.

Part of what makes the 44 such an amazing mic is its reach. Its proximity effect begins about 3 feet away, and it will gladly pick up every tiny little fart (on axis) in a large room. The only new mic available like that today is AFAIK the AEA R44. It also has a fairly wide frequency response. You could use one or two of them for a symphony orchestra and get good results.

The "natural" polar pattern of a ribbon mic is a figure of eight, with the ribbon simply exposed on both sides. Anything done to change that will also change the sound to some degree, reducing the proximity effect. This isn't necessarily a bad thing - after all, it was a feature in the RCA 77DX. I'm just saying that a Beyerdynamic M500 or a Shure SM33 isn't going to sound like an RCA 44.

Another factor in the sound is the length of the ribbon, as well as its tension.

Unless you can try before you buy, or you're willing to pay the cost of reribboning up front - steer clear of vintage RCA mics. With these mics, you're paying a premium for the vintage factor but they may be beat up and need work.

Whoever said it has to be a Royer or don't bother is ignorant. There are some very good ribbon mics being made, including Royer, AEA, Naked Eye, Coles, and yes, Beyerdynamic. My feeling is that when you buy a cheap microphone, you're gonna want to upgrade to something nicer sooner or later, so go for quality as far as you can.
 
so if you have a room that either doesn't sound that great or is dead
sounding, maybe a nice rca mic wouldn't be that great a choice. Would a sm7b or a heil be a better choice in that scenario?
 
AGCurry said:
If the RCA 44 is your idea of what you want from the ribbon experience, here are my observations. For what it's worth, I have quite a few ribbon mics, including the AEA R44 and R84, Shure SM33/333, Shure 300, and Beyerdynamic M160/260/500.

Part of what makes the 44 such an amazing mic is its reach. Its proximity effect begins about 3 feet away, and it will gladly pick up every tiny little fart (on axis) in a large room. The only new mic available like that today is AFAIK the AEA R44. It also has a fairly wide frequency response. You could use one or two of them for a symphony orchestra and get good results.

The "natural" polar pattern of a ribbon mic is a figure of eight, with the ribbon simply exposed on both sides. Anything done to change that will also change the sound to some degree, reducing the proximity effect. This isn't necessarily a bad thing - after all, it was a feature in the RCA 77DX. I'm just saying that a Beyerdynamic M500 or a Shure SM33 isn't going to sound like an RCA 44.

Another factor in the sound is the length of the ribbon, as well as its tension.

Unless you can try before you buy, or you're willing to pay the cost of reribboning up front - steer clear of vintage RCA mics. With these mics, you're paying a premium for the vintage factor but they may be beat up and need work.

Whoever said it has to be a Royer or don't bother is ignorant. There are some very good ribbon mics being made, including Royer, AEA, Naked Eye, Coles, and yes, Beyerdynamic. My feeling is that when you buy a cheap microphone, you're gonna want to upgrade to something nicer sooner or later, so go for quality as far as you can.
Click to expand...

Nice.

Like all mics, ribbons sound different from each other as well and it helps if you have the opportunity to try them out -- especially if you want the mic for vocals.

The Beyer M130 is figure of 8 and the rest of the Beyer ribbons, essentially, are hypercardioid. Hypercardioid is helpful to manage bleed and for close micing. Won't sound quite the same as a good figure of 8 in a good room though - if that is the sound you want. I have an AEA R84 as well and I think it's grand for background vocals, reeds, cabs and the like. Personally, I still like the M500 (or SM7) for lead vocals - at least with my voice and the group of people that I have had the opportunity to record, in my room. I haven't had the opportunity to try a Coles or a vintage RCA mic so I can't really opine on how those might work for lead vocals. To some degree, I think the figure of 8 ribbon mics are like a sensitive condensor in that the quality of your room will play a larger part (for better or worse) in the sound you ultimately achieve than with a dynamic or a cardioid ribbon mic.
 
AGCurry said:
There are some very good ribbon mics being made, including Royer, AEA, Naked Eye, Coles, and yes, Beyerdynamic. My feeling is that when you buy a cheap microphone, you're gonna want to upgrade to something nicer sooner or later, so go for quality as far as you can.
Click to expand...

Actually, I think "Naked Eye" is the name of the budget model mic from Crowley & Tripp.


sl
 
scrubs said:
Depends on how many shekels you have to spend. If you want something you won't have to upgrade, I'd suggest something along the lines of the AEA R84. The cheaper ribbons (Shinybox, Nady, Cascade, etc.) are fine on a budget and will get you a ribbon sound at a decent price, though.
Click to expand...

As I mentioned on the Analog Only forum version of this thread, you can check out all the AEA ribbons at:

www.wesdooley.com

He does make RCA 44 recreations, at a mere $4000 each. The R84 and R92 are around $1000.

Cheers,

Otto
 
am i crazy...or aren't ribbons flat looking? i ebay searched some mentioned and they were just regular dynamic-looking
 
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