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sotorious
New member
When to use them and when not to use them?
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Those are not an option (unless your compressor also offers some form of automatic/preset choices).
How you set the Attack, Release, Threshold (and Ratio) will dictate how the comp is going to work.
One way to learn is to take a track and just mess with those options while constantly going back-n-forth with the compressor In/Out...that way you can hear what each adjustment is doing to the source.
Sometimes it's not always easy at first to notice...so start with more extreme settings that provide obvious sound differences...and then slowly apply less and less, always going back-n-forth with your compressor and bypassing it.
How you set the Attack, Release, Threshold (and Ratio) will dictate how the comp is going to work.
One way to learn is to take a track and just mess with those options while constantly going back-n-forth with the compressor In/Out...that way you can hear what each adjustment is doing to the source.
Sometimes it's not always easy at first to notice...so start with more extreme settings that provide obvious sound differences...and then slowly apply less and less, always going back-n-forth with your compressor and bypassing it.
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
That's like asking when your body uses temperature, blood pressure and blood type and when it doesn't
. It's not a question of using them, they are always there and are always "used".If yuo want to learn how a compressor works and how to use it, click on my website in my sig, from it's main page click on the "Resources" tab across the top menu bar, and from the "Resources" page click on "Compression Uncompressed".
G.
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sotorious
New member
All this stuff makes me want to rip my hair out. It just seems that i have a hard time making the vocals sit right with in the beat. It may have a lot to do with my room as i am recording in a wide open room. I also get this hollow sound.
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Chibi Nappa
New member
Attack: Fast attacks (low numbers) can sound smooth and wander towards dull the faster you push it. Slow attacks (high numbers) can sound crisp and wander towards transparent the slower you push it.
Release: Fast releases (low numbers) can sound cleaner and wander towards sudden distortion the faster you push it. Slower releases can sound punchier and wander towards pumping the slower you push it.
Threshold and Ratio: These work together to determine how much empty space is squashed out of a sound. Threshold is totally dependent on the level the signal was recorded at. One sound might compress lightly with a threshold of -10. Another sound recorded at a lower level might compress lightly at a threshold of -24. Think of a hand squeezing a sponge. How far are you going to move your fingers when you close them? That is the threshold. If the sponge is small (recorded at a low level), you might not even touch the sponge after closing your fingers the prescribed distance. If the sponge is large (recorded at a hot level), you might crush the life out of the sponge with the exact same finger movement that didn't even touch the small sponge.
Ratio is sort of like "how strong is the hand crushing the sponge?"
A high ratio is a strong hand that will not let any part of the sponge spring back. Vise-versa for a low ratio.
Anyway, threshold and ratio control how confined your sound appears. You can leave it light and sparse or squash it to heavy and dense.
Remember: Many of these changes are subtle. But all compressors change the overall apparent volume. That is NOT a subtle change. As such, be sure to manually set your makeup gain so the track remains the same apparent volume whether you toggle the compressor on or off. That way you can listen for the subtle changes without being masked out by the large volume change.
Release: Fast releases (low numbers) can sound cleaner and wander towards sudden distortion the faster you push it. Slower releases can sound punchier and wander towards pumping the slower you push it.
Threshold and Ratio: These work together to determine how much empty space is squashed out of a sound. Threshold is totally dependent on the level the signal was recorded at. One sound might compress lightly with a threshold of -10. Another sound recorded at a lower level might compress lightly at a threshold of -24. Think of a hand squeezing a sponge. How far are you going to move your fingers when you close them? That is the threshold. If the sponge is small (recorded at a low level), you might not even touch the sponge after closing your fingers the prescribed distance. If the sponge is large (recorded at a hot level), you might crush the life out of the sponge with the exact same finger movement that didn't even touch the small sponge.
Ratio is sort of like "how strong is the hand crushing the sponge?"
A high ratio is a strong hand that will not let any part of the sponge spring back. Vise-versa for a low ratio.
Anyway, threshold and ratio control how confined your sound appears. You can leave it light and sparse or squash it to heavy and dense.
Remember: Many of these changes are subtle. But all compressors change the overall apparent volume. That is NOT a subtle change. As such, be sure to manually set your makeup gain so the track remains the same apparent volume whether you toggle the compressor on or off. That way you can listen for the subtle changes without being masked out by the large volume change.
Massive Master
www.massivemastering.com
Any amount of compression is almost universally going to make bad rooms sound worse.
noisewreck
New member
Just to expand on this. The reason this is true is because compression will make any ambience that has been recorded along with the sound more apparent, especially at fast attack settings.
Also, along those same lines, if a sound has been recorded in a reverberant space, along with natural reverb, it will make that reverb more apparent, which in turn will push the sound further back in the soundstage.
Considerations, considerations...
One way to really hear what Attack and Release do to the sound is to do this:
Setup a compressor on a track with the following settings:
Threshold: all the way down (i.e. in the direction so that it compresses basically everything, if it is in dBs, then go to the lowest it will allow, like -50dB)
Ratio: the highest
Attack: fastest
Release: fastest
Now, at this point your track will likely sound very quiet and pretty well destroyed, but we're not going after quality, we're after extremes so we can actually hear things in not-so-subtle ways.
What you want to do now is setup a loop of say 4 bars, and hit play in your DAW. Now, slowly start increasing Attack. If you have a rhythmic material for this (like drums), even better. You should now start hearing how the attack transients are starting to poke through. In crease Attack as far as it will go to get a feel of what gets through and by how much. Again, a drum mix (drum loop, or a submix of your drums) would be best for this, because you can hear the difference in transient times between the kick, snare, and hi-hats for example.
Now decrease the attack time again, but set it so some transients poke through. Now start increasing the release time. Listen.
Enjoy.
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sotorious
New member
Nice break downs.
I have a tool i use called "hard limiting" i dont know if its in any of the other DAWs im sure it is, just incase its not its a form of compression that brings the lows to a good section and the highs lower if they are to high. If i also just add another compressor ontop of that will that be to much?
I have a tool i use called "hard limiting" i dont know if its in any of the other DAWs im sure it is, just incase its not its a form of compression that brings the lows to a good section and the highs lower if they are to high. If i also just add another compressor ontop of that will that be to much?
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dintymoore
Guest
It's not uncommon to run a track through a compressor to compress it (what a concept) and then through a second compressor to limit it.
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sotorious
New member
Also does anyone have any instant messaging programs, so i can get someone one on one. and wont flood the forum with dumb questions.
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dintymoore
Guest
If you truly don't know something, it's not a dumb question, plus there's probably someone else who might benefit from your questions but is too shy to ask the same question because they think it's too dumb.
Massive Master
www.massivemastering.com
Believe me - They all have hard (usually a.k.a. "brick-wall") limiting (God help us all, they all have hard limiting).
Not something you'd really ever use on a vocal track though...
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sotorious
New member
So i want to stay away from hard limiting when using it on vocals and just try to use a normal compressor. Reason why i also use it is it brings up the loudness when needed.
Anyone know any good plug ins of compressors?
Massive Master
www.massivemastering.com
1) Compressors make loud things quieter - Make-up gain makes quiet things louder. You can use make-up gain on any compressor.
2) About a zillion of them. What sort of budget are you working with?
2) About a zillion of them. What sort of budget are you working with?
Armistice
Son of Yoda
Hi
It sounds like you're just using a compressor because you have one, not because you understand why you need to.
I'd go back to your vocal and try to re-take it minus some of the issues you have.
It sounds like you're just using a compressor because you have one, not because you understand why you need to.
I'd go back to your vocal and try to re-take it minus some of the issues you have.
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sotorious
New member
Its mainly for the different levels isnt it as if i start yelling in the mic it would bring it down a notch or so.
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Chibi Nappa
New member
This is what fader automation is for. Program your faders to bump up on the quiet parts and down on the loud parts. It is much less destructive and sounds much better for the purpose of evening out volume. For really important passages, you may want to forgo the automation and manually ride the single channel with your hand each time you mix.
Hell, in the days before automation you'd see 5 people crowded around the board at mix time with their hands on different faders moving them at the instruction of the mix engineer as the song played.
But that's how you do it. Faders are for controlling volume. With compressors...evening out volume is almost more of a side-effect. You hit a compressor when you want to change something about the tone or feel of a sound. Eh...I take a little of that back. Many times you do level out sound with a compressor...but to a subtle extent. Nothing as drastic as very soft to very loud.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Or you could learn to work the mic a little better.
Watch some of the real pro (quality) singers...they don't just kiss up to the mic and sing there the whole time...they are always "working the mic"...moving their head back when they are going to yell/sing loud...come in closer for quieter parts....etc.
You don't really need to compress...and if you do end up with some louder peaks....just manually drop them down in your DAW (or raise the ones that are too quiet)...
...but with all that, you still want some dynamics in the level. It's NOT about everything hitting the same level.
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
The title of this thread would make a good album title. Or a 17 minute progressive rock epic title.
For me the compressor has become more of a sound/tone shaping/altering effect. It seems that compression has for longer than we care to remember become de rigueur, so much so that one almost feels they've committed a federal offence if they don't use it routinely. So it's kind of refreshing to see advice that it's not necesarilly necesary.
For me the compressor has become more of a sound/tone shaping/altering effect. It seems that compression has for longer than we care to remember become de rigueur, so much so that one almost feels they've committed a federal offence if they don't use it routinely. So it's kind of refreshing to see advice that it's not necesarilly necesary.
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noisewreck
New member
Or break them down and each would make a title for a KMFDM song. Hell, they already have songs called "Release" and "Attack". Not sure about "Threshold" though
