Reflection Filter question.

[NLAlston]

SE electronics has an isolating 'Reflection Filter' that MF is selling for $300. It seems like it may be worthwhile, but (as the $300 isn't that easy to give up) I would like some input on it - from someone who has experience with/ or knowledge about it. Here is the link to it:

http://www.seelectronics.com/rf.html

Advanced thanks.

 

[kojdogg]

it's useful for sure-- it does what it says, it increases your ability to isolate mic'ed sources (well one at least), it's portable (you can take the filter off to use for mic'ed electric). you will need a relatively hefty stand, or will need to weigh down a flimsier one or it might topple over.
there's lots out there on it including many very positive reviews, and you'll probably get better mileage out of searching here and good old google if you spell it correctly (incorrectly) "reflexion filter"

 

[Freddy]

I have one. Yes, it helps with tracking in an untreated room. It helps more to have something behind you to soak up reflexions too, mind you.

If you are looking at this, it may also be worth looking at the Real Traps offering (which wasn't available when I got my one). http://realtraps.com/p_pvb.htm I have no experience of it, but it looks pretty good.

As far as mounting it. I find it easier to leave the supplied mounting system aside. I attach the Reflexion filter directly to a mic stand (I needed a thread converter), and then use a second mic stand for the mic itself. I just find it less fiddly that way, and a bit more flexible.

 

[NLAlston]

Thanks guys.

I just came back from taking my wife to Guitar center, for the purpose of showing it to her - and gaining her input (as to whether it might be ok to try and get it). I tossed around the idea of, possibly, getting some of that acoustical wall treatment stuff, and devising myself some sort of contraption which might serve (at least to a degree) the same purpose, at a fraction of the cost.

My wife, though (God bless her), didn't cotton to the idea of my having something of a makeshift order, and promised that I could get that - as well as the $200 heavy duty, rolling mic stand that it was paired with - next week.

So, I don't know...I just have to think about it some.

 

[kidvybes]

...another option that is a bit more versatile (side panels are adjustable offering different isolation configurations) and won't require the secondary heavy duty mic stand can be found here:
http://www.americanmusical.com/item...m_mmc=Froogle-_-SearchEngine-_-Feed-_-SMA MTG

 

[kojdogg]

also www.modtrap.com

 

[omtayslick]

My wife, though (God bless her), didn't cotton to the idea of my having something of a makeshift order, and promised that I could get that - as well as the $200 heavy duty, rolling mic stand that it was paired with - next week.

God bless her indeed! I also have a supportive wife. I feel sorry for the guys who don't, and for whom each gear purchase is a threat to domestic tranquility.

I also have a reflexion filter. It works as advertised. Read the comments from Stevie Wonder on SE's site. (It's mixed in with some comments about one of their mics) He says every studio should have one. And you know he's not recommending it because it looks snazzy.

 

[NLAlston]

God bless her indeed! I also have a supportive wife. I feel sorry for the guys who don't, and for whom each gear purchase is a threat to domestic tranquility.

I also have a reflexion filter. It works as advertised. Read the comments from Stevie Wonder on SE's site. (It's mixed in with some comments about one of their mics) He says every studio should have one. And you know he's not recommending it because it looks snazzy.

Tom,

Yes...we happen to be two VERY BLESSED men.

You know, I DID happen across what Stevie Wonder had to say about that filter, and it was (in fact) the swaying factor in my leaning towards getting it. I mean, if it's good enough for HIM... .

I have also read where it was said that the unit works best when it is in a room with some acoustical treatment. I am in a computer room, for now, but am thinking about moving my setup into the master bedroom. I need something REALLY BAD, but just need to make sure that I am getting the best bang for the buck.

Another poster referred me to a link, which held a similar product - but of a different design. This one was larger, and incoporated a "V" shape instead. It sold for the same amount ($300), and touted being better than sE's Reflexion Filter because of its design. Yet, I had also recently read (somewhere) that the semi-circular design of the Reflexion Filter was leagues ahead of the other manufacturer's model with the "V" shape.

But, again - Stevie spoke very highly of it, so maybe I should just go with that. GC has stated that I'd have 30 days in which the product could be returned for a full refund, providing that I found myself to be not happy with it. I just wish that my mic stand was heavy enough to support that filter. That would save me $200.

Oh well...

 

[kojdogg]

i use an atlas stand that is plenty hefty (the base weighs about 30lbs i believe). i got it for a little less than $100. other people use cheaper mic stands ($30-40) with a 10 or 20 pound barbell weight impaled through by the stand to help weight it down. the main factor with the filter seems to be making it bottom heavy and stable enough so that it doesn't topple over.

 

[MCI2424]

Jeez, it is easy to see where these rocket scientists get their pricing on these highly innovative products. I built one for about $40 and it works just fine. They just copy the $300 price from each other.

Get the Auralex foam squares (the ones with the triangle cuts) and mount to a folding frame made with acoustic treatment (Owens Corning 703) and light wood framing to absorb the bass and you got it.

 

[zorf]

Just wanted to address the last comment.
Not to jump on you personally mci, but i see a lot of comments like this
on forums. The tone seems to inply that the manufacture is gouging us, and that you can do it yourself for less.
Well, yes you can.
The people who make products like this have to first think of an idea, design, test, and adjust prototypes, then set up a manufacturing setup that is probably more involved then making a one off on the living-room floor. if they want it to look nice, and not fall apart, they might have to source, machine, and custom order materials.
There is not a huge market for these, so there is not an economy of scale.
How many people in the world are going to buy something like this, 1000?
5000?
If you are selling them through a retail outlet, you are going to get 50 to
65 percent of the retail price from the retailer.
You also have to advertise, design a nice looking site, and packaging.
You have to set up a system for receiving and shipping orders.
Don't forget buisiness licenses, insurance, municipal fees, and taxes.
Legal fees, financing charges on startup capital.
They are probably going to have to pay someone to help them with this.
And to top it all off, you probably won't have time left to go to a regular job,
so there has to be enough money left over to feed your family, pay your mortgage, buy gas, clothe yourselves, take a vacation, buy your mom a christmas present, etc.
Not exactly a get rich scheme.

Nate, there was a discussion a while back in the Studio Building section of
this forum a while back about the reflextion filter, try an advanced search.

 

[antman]

Real Traps < i got that in feb when it cameout was going to go with Se but after listening to the mp3s and seeing it in person i went with real traps...Very plz with it.

 

[Webb]

I was interested in either the SE or Real Traps, but for the little amount of recording I've unfortunately been doing lately, I decided to give this one a try from Auralex...

http://www.truesoundcontrol.com/products/XPANDER.html

Just ordered it, so no comments yet, but for the $50 I got it for I figured I would give it a shot. Has anyone used this?

 

[MCI2424]

Just wanted to address the last comment.
Not to jump on you personally mci, but i see a lot of comments like this
on forums. The tone seems to inply that the manufacture is gouging us, and that you can do it yourself for less.
Well, yes you can.
The people who make products like this have to first think of an idea, design, test, and adjust prototypes, then set up a manufacturing setup that is probably more involved then making a one off on the living-room floor. if they want it to look nice, and not fall apart, they might have to source, machine, and custom order materials.
There is not a huge market for these, so there is not an economy of scale.
How many people in the world are going to buy something like this, 1000?
5000?
If you are selling them through a retail outlet, you are going to get 50 to
65 percent of the retail price from the retailer.
You also have to advertise, design a nice looking site, and packaging.
You have to set up a system for receiving and shipping orders.
Don't forget buisiness licenses, insurance, municipal fees, and taxes.
Legal fees, financing charges on startup capital.
They are probably going to have to pay someone to help them with this.
And to top it all off, you probably won't have time left to go to a regular job,
so there has to be enough money left over to feed your family, pay your mortgage, buy gas, clothe yourselves, take a vacation, buy your mom a christmas present, etc.
Not exactly a get rich scheme.

Nate, there was a discussion a while back in the Studio Building section of
this forum a while back about the reflextion filter, try an advanced search.

Acually, it took 1 guy to think it up, build it, market it and do all that was necessary to sell it.........for $300

Then it takes every other jackass to copy it, sell it for ...............$300

I guess there is a magic book that sets the market at ...........$300

You can build it for ............$40

The Beatles had them.............they are called gobos. They have been around for 40 years if not more.

Oh. I forgot to add the 1000 guys who think they are going to set the world on fire re-branding the same old chinese mics with super sexy names and tacking on a $300 if not more pricetag to the hefty $35-40 lot price.

Gotta love these times in home recording. People are being yanked to and fro and every country bumpkin is all of a sudden a "mic designer".

Don't get this diatribe confused with disrespect for you or anyone else here. I am just tired of seeing all this crap popping up at unherad of prices touting it to be the next big thing in the recording world.

Remember Aphex Aural Exciters? Those hunks were rented out to the tune of $1000/day to pros. Every era has it's white elephants, but today is really, really sad.

 

[kidvybes]

I was interested in either the SE or Real Traps, but for the little amount of recording I've unfortunately been doing lately, I decided to give this one a try from Auralex...

http://www.truesoundcontrol.com/products/XPANDER.html

Just ordered it, so no comments yet, but for the $50 I got it for I figured I would give it a shot. Has anyone used this?

...yeah, I've had that setup for over a year or so...better than nothing, but I've had much better luck with a V-shaped unit I built out of PVC pipe and a mover's blanket for about $30 at home depot...
https://homerecording.com/bbs/attachment.php?attachmentid=24255
https://homerecording.com/bbs/attachment.php?attachmentid=24256
https://homerecording.com/bbs/attachment.php?attachmentid=24257
https://homerecording.com/bbs/attachment.php?attachmentid=24258

 

[MessianicDreams]

I honestly think for the price of one of those you could build some pretty decent - and much bigger scaled - acoustic treatment. I built 4 BIG broadband absorders for much less than what they're selling - and still have some material left over (see link in my sig.)

For the guy who's gna cough up 300 bucks for the filter and another 200 for a mic stand - you're 500 bucks would be much better spent (imho) buying/building some treatment for ya room.

I think these filters people are now selling work well on *certain* applications, but on the whole room treatment is much more desireable.

 

[Robert D]

Keep in mind that some people can't for one reason or another treat their room, and that some people do remote recording where they have to have portable tools to deal with poor acoustic spaces. But I agree that if neither of these apply, then upwards of $500 could get a good start on making whole room treatments.

 

[NLAlston]

Thanks everyone.

You have all given me something else to consider. I am thinking that Maybe I will look toward building my own. It would have to be of smaller & portable design, because I do not have a dedicated area for my setup. I had thought of setting up in the master bedroom, but have since thought against that. So, I will most definitely consider what has been forwarded to my attention.

 

[ofajen]

OK, so probably this isn't relevant to you right now, because of cost, but I think it's worth knowing about in the long run...

The ASC Studio Trap is an incredibly elegant (but expensive) tool for creating a high quality, controlled and reproducible recording subspace as well as a high quality, controlled and reproducible mixing subspace. I use mine to do both in the same room, and they are easily portable for use in other studios and on location recordings when I can get access to a better sounding room, such as a church sanctuary. They're not cheap, but they really take care of the acoustical issues.

Here's the link on the Studio Trap itself:
http://www.asc-studio-acoustics.com/st.htm

Here's the link on using them to create a recording subspace:
http://www.asc-studio-acoustics.com/qsf.htm
You may want to scroll down to the bottom of this page and download the application pdf file for some helpful illustrations and examples.

Here's the link on using them to create a mixing subspace:
http://www.asc-studio-acoustics.com/attk.htm

Just for your reading pleasure.

Cheers,

Otto

 

[NLAlston]

Jeez, it is easy to see where these rocket scientists get their pricing on these highly innovative products. I built one for about $40 and it works just fine. They just copy the $300 price from each other.

Get the Auralex foam squares (the ones with the triangle cuts) and mount to a folding frame made with acoustic treatment (Owens Corning 703) and light wood framing to absorb the bass and you got it.

You know, I think that I may do just that. Though my wife has given me the go-ahead to get the Reflexion Filter w/stand setup (next week), I would rather not have to shell out that much if I don't have to.

I am pretty handy with making things (being a woodworker) and had considered the idea of making my own portable isolation panels. I, initially, thought that gluing some Auralex foam on 1/2" thick plywood panels would be all that there was to it. I have no problem with what might have to be done, I just need to know - exactly - what would be required. You mentioned a 'folding frame' that was made with acoustical treatment, and then light wood framing to absorb the bottom end. So I gather from this (maybe erroneously) that the Folding Frame should be made out of aluminum? or maybe some other non-wood product? And that - also maybe - a light wood frame should surround that? Or could I make the entire framework & backing from plywood?

Is the Owens Corning 703 something that can be applied topically, to surfaces, or is it a product whereby something can be constructed from?

Please forgive the many questions, my friend, I am just trying to get a good grasp on where I need to go - and how I need to do what is desired.