Refinishing a guitar?

Well, if the old paint is blistering and flaking the is no doubt I would take it down to bare wood.

If at all possible that is always the best way to go. A lot of people don't like the work involved in prepping but it's essential to get the best results when finishing.

Like I said I do that as a matter of course on refinishes now. Too many possible pitfalls if you try and go over whats on there unless you know exactly what it is, how it's been maintained and even what has been used to clean the finish before hand. With the way silica based furniture polish behaves I also naphtha and caustic wash the wood once it's in the white if I can. as those silica residues can soak right through lacquer into the wood and fuck up any attempt to finish over.... Had it happen more than once. Nightmare.
 
Here's where I got with 100 grit and an hour:
11650745_10204533526399948_76865445_n.jpg

Basically that on all sides.
The back took more time and energy than the front. Surprisingly, the front was begging to be stripped away lol.
I decided to stop for the night because mosquitoes :(
Tomorrow I guess I'll switch to the 150 or 220 to finish it so I don't mess up anything.

Does the pic give you guys any clue on what I'm dealing with and how I should proceed?

---------- Update ----------

I wore a mask and did the sanding outdoors btw

---------- Update ----------

I'm glad I didn't buy the heatgun and chisel.
 
If at all possible that is always the best way to go. A lot of people don't like the work involved in prepping but it's essential to get the best results when finishing.

Like I said I do that as a matter of course on refinishes now. Too many possible pitfalls if you try and go over whats on there unless you know exactly what it is, how it's been maintained and even what has been used to clean the finish before hand. With the way silica based furniture polish behaves I also naphtha and caustic wash the wood once it's in the white if I can. as those silica residues can soak right through lacquer into the wood and fuck up any attempt to finish over.... Had it happen more than once. Nightmare.
Yeah, it's happened to me before too....not on a guitar but on furniture
I was finishing. The paint will bead up on the silica spot like water on a freshly waxed car. Though it may be an unnecessary step after I naphtha the bare wood I seal it with sandable sealer. Although it's ready to paint at that point I still shoot it with white primer....because I like to fine sand the primer and it's easy to see any light spots with the white primer when spraying the color.
(Unless you're shooting white paint)
I've not had a problem since I started sealing before priming.
 
Also, I usually use the brush on paint stripper to get the paint off....especially on a thick poly finish. Sanding takes a lot of elbow grease and you can, especially when fatigued from much sanding, alter the contours of the guitar with sanding. I brush the stripper on and it blisters up the paint scrape it off with a plastic spackling applicator. Done in 30 minutes. Then clean with naphtha, seal, prime, and paint.
 
Yeah, it's happened to me before too....not on a guitar but on furniture
I was finishing. The paint will bead up on the silica spot like water on a freshly waxed car. Though it may be an unnecessary step after I naphtha the bare wood I seal it with sandable sealer. Although it's ready to paint at that point I still shoot it with white primer....because I like to fine sand the primer and it's easy to see any light spots with the white primer when spraying the color.
(Unless you're shooting white paint)
I've not had a problem since I started sealing before priming.

You need to remove the silica which is next to impossible. The best way s a caustic wash. Rub it in, and let it dry, sand back with 600 or above. rinse and repeat.... Even then it's a lottery. The Naptha lets you get at the silicates by removing other crap. Paint strippers are handy but will not touch silica residue...

My method is mechanical stripping with a good sharp cabinet scraper then sand and wash...
 
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So here's where I'm at now: 11652224_10204538234877657_1481422398_n.jpg11651330_10204538234837656_762180695_n.jpg11667901_10204538234917658_274609409_n.jpg

I called it for the night again because of mosquitoes.
I've brought it in so I can remove the input jack and bridge and finish the few spots left.

...kind of off topic, but, how difficult would replacing this bridge be?
With this: USA Spaced Solid Brass Block Tremolo GOLD- Complete Kit
I think I'd like to go for the classic black beauty look for this.
Black guitar, gold hardware, you know, that whole thing.
 
Mounting a new bridge isn't hard. You just have to make sure it's positioned right.
The correct position may place it where it dosent cover the hole of the old bridge. Especially if you're thinking about going with a non term bridge like a Gibson style. You would have to create a piece to plug the old hole and then redrill. I would use the same bridge for simplicity sake.
Thats just me.
 
Yeah, I'm wondering what I should do...
11324144_10204538372841106_1908599769_n.jpg11650828_10204538371361069_1448966003_n.jpg

I mean, in a perfect world, I'd plug this stuff up and install a gibson style bridge.
I just wouldn't know where to begin with what to plug it with :(
 
I suppose I could buy a gold trem style bridge that would fit correctly if I measured?

It looks like a strat bridge may work. You have to measure from the nut to the bridge and get the distance correct or you will have intonation problems. Also he string spacing on the replacement bridge will have to be close to that of the old bridge to match up to the nut.
Like I said, from the looks of it a strat bridge may get you close. You will just have to check it out. There are many different string spacing on strat typle bridges. Take you old bridge and compare it to one and you will know when you come accross a close match. You may be able to get by with just having to drill some new mounting holes for the bridge. You may even be able to fine a replacement bridge. Do a Google search for part for your particular make and model of guitar.
You may get lucky and find a new gold one on ebay for 10 bucks.
 
Will do.

I've compared to a few of my other import strat copies; I think I should be able to buy a bridge for it and just drop it in.
If it fails, guitarfetish has a nice return policy :D

So, I should be finished sanding tomorrow.

What's the first step of refinishing it?

I was thinking of going to pick up a can of Rust-Oleum Sandable Primer.
Then whatever I'd finish it with from Stew Mac. Then the clear coat.
Wrong way to go about things?
 
The last guitar I refinished was a V. I like nitro lacquer because I like the way it cuts and buffs in the final stages of sanding and polishing. Lacquer really looks gorgeous when done right. Most high end guitars are done with nitro lacquer...probably because the old vintage Gibson and fender guitars were done that way, and because of the myth that the guitar sounds better with a thin lacquer finish than with a thicker poly finish. (There ain't a dimes worth of difference). Anyway, you can get nitro lacquer in rattle cans from a website called guitar reranch. It's good stuff but very pricey. It's worth it if you're going to do a metallic like lake placid blue or a candy apple red. But, for black I wouldn't spring for the pricey rattle can nitro lacquer, I would go to home depot or hobby lobby and get a 3 cans of acrylic lacquer black. I would probably do the clear coat in nitro lacquer. Or you could clear it with acylic lacquer.
(You want to build up a clear coat to be able to sand and polish into a mirror shine with out sanding through to your black color coat.)
You don't have to use lacquer...you could use enamal or polyurethane. There are up sides and downsides to any paint you go with.
Poly...upside is it dries fast and is rock hard and dosent ding easily.
The poly downside is its a thicker finish and its harder work to cut and buff it to a mirror shine and even though it's hard to ding, if you do ding it you can't fix the ding.
Lacquer...upside is its easy to cut and buff to a mirror shine and if you ding it it's an easy repair.
Downside to lacquer is it has a longer dry time and a longer cure time. It will be easy to ding it before the cure really sets in.
I just baby a lacquer finished guitar for couple of months...it actually takes several months to completely cure. As far as sandable primer goes... read the label and make sure it is compatible with the paint you intend to spray. I would use a sealer before I primed it but that is just the way I do it.
The last thing you want to do is spray it with primer you spent your hard earned money for and then see a spot where the primer isn't adhering...or worse paint the whole thing and the paint bubble up in a couple of places.
An ounce of sealer can save you a pound of stress.
Muttley is an expert at building and finishing guitars...pay attention to his recommendations in this thread....he won't steer you wrong.
Good luck!
 
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Thanks! I JUST went out and finished sanding it at 11pm. So now it's all ready for the next step(s) :D

Think I'll go with lacquer instead of poly then.
I baby all my guitars anyway :D

Before I actually paint it I'll wait for the bridge to come in so I can see if it's compatible. If it is, I'll need to fill those two holes and the hole for a knob under the bridge pickup. I plan on just keeping the toggle and the volume knob. So I'll await the words of muttley!
 
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I'm out for the rest of the day but will post a simple and pretty fool proof finishing regime when I get back tonight. About 6 - 8 hours from now.

Once it's stripped you want to make sure it's spotlessly clean and and dings and dents are filled. You can use car body filler for those and sand back. Next step for me would be to use a caustic wash to remove unwanted residues that can affect adhesion but thats not essential. You can use a decent light bleach instead and you'll probably be good. After that and it's dry I would wipe on a good few layers of French polish (shellac) That will stick to anything and is always the simplest and easiest base coat and allows you to put anything you like on top of the shellac...

Sand back to a minimum of 400 grit before the shellac and it will save you loads of time later and help when cutting back between coats later.

Thats a good 4 hour work right there... More later...;)

On the bridge thing... Most decent bridges have dimension drawings somewhere on line. Check those against what you have. As Jimmi says make sure the saddles are where they need to be for the scale length..
 
Soory for not replying as promised, I got completed side tracked with work stuff...

Back onto finishing.

That Shellac should be ok as a sealer and barrier coat as long as it is shellac based. Shellac is a great way of insuring that one finish will take onto another of a different type as it will stick to just about anything. You don't need a lot. do three or four mist coats and cut back between with your 400 grit very lightly (known as denibbing)..

What you will have then is a sound surface on which to start bodying up the colour and the clear top coat. You can pretty much choose whatever type of lacquer you like but stick to the same type for colour and top coat. I would even recommend sticking to the same brand. Let me know what type of lacquer you opt for and I'll give you some type specific tips...

The golden rule with finishing that I always chant as a mantra here is "test on scrap". I still do it after over 35 years... Get some scrap ply and sand it back and put the shellac on it so it's at the same stage as the body. Then test every step before you hit the guitar body..

Always read and follow the manufacturers instructions on gassing off times and NEVER put too much on. I would start with a primer coat. If you are going for black then use the grey primer. Mist a coat on first then put on a another coat until you have a solid colour. Let it dry and lightly denib with 400. If you run through in any spots just dodge them in and denib. I cant emphasize enough, less is more. Don't put too much on in a single coat.

From now on everything you do will be visible so take time and care. I'm guessing you will be using rattle cans so practice your technique first. A few tips,

Never start the can going when it's stationary, always keep the can moving. Start away from the body and keep the can the same distance from the work (8 -12 inches is best). Press the nozzle once you arm is moving not before. kEEP THE CAN LEVEL, MOVE THE ARM NOT THE WRIST..KEEP THE SAME SPEED GOING, don't speed up slow down. Take your finger off the nozzle once you have cleared the body. Shake the can vigorously for ten seconds between every few passes. Keep a cloth handy to wipe the nozzle every few passes as it will help stop spitting and keep the nozzle clear.. Never go over an area that you have just done. Leave it until it's dry and hit it again. If you can still see the primer colour don't worry, three or four light coats are better than two heavy coats. If you load too much on in one go you will be storing up problems as the solvent needs to gas off. Once you get a feel for it you should be able to overlap each pass by a half inch or so, no more. The moment the can starts to spit either change it or let is stand for a good ten minutes and shake it as if you are starting a fresh. From my experience one in about five of those cans are no good so don't worry of you have to bin or return it.. They are what they are and to get a professional finish you have to use them well and carefully. There is a knack to it, you'll get it. Practice on scrap.

If you do it properly you will need maybe 4 coats to build up the colour, you can denib between coats depending on how clean you work and how much dust you have around. If you cant get a clean room or area then put some buckets of water around the place as that will help pull dust out of the air but keep the place ventilated. Avoid letting insects anywhere near where you are working. They love lacquer. If you want to do it out doors pick a dry, overcast day if possible or work in a well shaded area and watch out for insects... You have been warned..;)

Once you have the colour down hit it with 400 or even better 600 grit lightly all over. If you run through dodge it in with a light coat of colour.

Wipe all the dust off and prepare for top coats. These have to be spotless or you will see any little specks in the final finish. Load up a dozen really fine thin coats of clear. You can denib every few coats and make sure you wipe clean each time. No dust at all needed here.

For the final few coats you will want to load up a bit heavier but not to heavy. By this time you should have a good feel for the amount you can lay up with out it running or sagging.. When you have those last few coats done and everything looks good. Go hang it up some where clean, dry and well ventilated and forget about it for a few weeks..

You will benifit from thinking through the work area before hand. Have everything to hand and be patient. You will need to find a way to secure the guitar so you can move it while spraying as you will want to be able to hit the whole thing when you do the last top coats. The primer and colour you can work one face then let it cure and work the other face. I always screw a hook stick to the neck pocket and have a dowel or stick screwed in where the end pin goes. That way I can handle it easily without ever touching the finish. I also use a lazy susan table that comes in handy for turning if I dont have a way of hanging or want to lay up from above.

Good luck... and any questions or stuff I've missed just shout..

Did I mention...

TEST ON SCRAP.
 
Hey mutt. Great advise, it's hard to cover all the bases with one single post but you have pretty much done it. one observatuon though...you didn't really cover the waiting time between coats. Many people (myself included) are prone to rush into a second coat before the first coat has had enough dry time.

Also, it's best to spray lacquer in low humidity conditions to avoid it blushing isn't it?
 
Hey mutt. Great advise, it's hard to cover all the bases with one single post but you have pretty much done it. one observatuon though...you didn't really cover the waiting time between coats. Many people (myself included) are prone to rush into a second coat before the first coat has had enough dry time.

Also, it's best to spray lacquer in low humidity conditions to avoid it blushing isn't it?

Briefly covered both those points...

If you want to do it out doors pick a dry, overcast day if possible or work in a well shaded area and watch out for insects... You have been warned..





Always read and follow the manufacturers instructions on gassing off times and NEVER put too much on.



Yes blushing is cause by getting water trapped under the surface when it gasses off too quick, If I'm spraying in dry conditions or if it's very hot (like today, record July temps here) then I'll add some retarder to the pot. Not an option on rattle cans.. thats why I always advise going on lean even if you are an experienced sprayer and can lay up even coats. The thinner it is the better it gases off and more evenly.

The gassing off times are important and how important they are varies with different lacquers. Nitro or as it's become these days two pack catalysed lacquers you have a little slop as the coats dissolve the top of the previous to bleed in. Acrylic and enamel although easier to lay up need more care when cutting back because they sit one layer on the next with no bleed in...

The things that can and do go wrong when finishing using whatever are immense, believe me I've seen them all. There is a way round many of them withou need to strip and start again but not all of them. Thats why I always suggest a keep it simple and follow the golden rules approach. People tend to rush finishing because it's the last thing to do and they want to get it strung. Thats a major mistake.

The best way to get round problems like blushing, orange peel, rippling, etc... is to avoid them in the first place..

TEST ON SCRAP..
 
TBH, I could write a thousand pages on finishing and barely touch the basics... It's part science, part feel, and part alchemy.

Over the years I have managed to grasp most skills around working with materials, I can lay bricks, plumb, do electrics, all that other stuff... The hardest trades are plasterer and polisher/finisher.. I still cant lay on plaster.. frustrates the hell out of me.. I can finish with anything though and I'm one of the only people around here that can genuinely french polish. I get asked by a lot of local restorers and furniture makers to finish their stuff but always refuse. They need to get it down...

TEST ON SCRAP.
 
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