Recording vox and acoustic guitar at the same time

[Kevin Deschwazi]

The chap I collaborate with prefers that I record his vox and acoustic guitar at the same time. The reason being that he can't overdub the vox track without the vocal performance suffering and having tried it both ways I agree with him. To his credit he's practiced a lot but it's still not as good.

Sooooooooooooo:

Any suggestions for seperating the vocal and guitar mics? A further (not insignificant) factor is that I record his acoustic with a condensor and vox with an SM 58 (because it suits his voice better than any of my other mics). As a result his vocal is as loud (if not louder) on the guitar mic as on the vocal mic.

Thanks in advance

 

[visa]

here's my suggestion:

- record vocals and guitar at the same time with the mics you have. if possible go direct.

- then you have the vocals just the way you want them.

- then make him play along to his own previously directly recorded guitar...this time with a mic setup.

- then delete the first guitar track and replace it by the new one.

 

[Irk]

What's wrong with getting the guitar and vocal on one mic? Where is the condenser mic in relation to the guitar and the mouth?

 

[Kevin Deschwazi]

Where is the condenser mic in relation to the guitar and the mouth?

The best sound I've got is directing the condensor at the point where the neck meets the guitar body.

What's wrong with getting the guitar and vocal on one mic?

It takes me long enough faffing around, positioning the mic to get a good sound for the guitar alone.
Also whatever I do in the mix will have to suit both sources and I think I'll probably find this a bit limiting.

Thanks for replies. Visa, I'll try what you suggested.

 

[junplugged]

here's my suggestion:

- record vocals and guitar at the same time with the mics you have. if possible go direct.

- then you have the vocals just the way you want them.

- then make him play along to his own previously directly recorded guitar...this time with a mic setup.

- then delete the first guitar track and replace it by the new one.

Hey, good idea. I have to try that.

(I wanna do it now, but I have to sleep, that sucks, I got the urge to record, but I can't....)

 

[chessrock]

here's my suggestion:

- record vocals and guitar at the same time with the mics you have. if possible go direct.

- then you have the vocals just the way you want them.

- then make him play along to his own previously directly recorded guitar...this time with a mic setup.

- then delete the first guitar track and replace it by the new one.

What he said. And use a dynamic mic for vox. Preferably hypercardiod if you can.

 

[sonic edwards]

Try this

You might try using two bidirectional mics, the dead side is deader than the rear of any cardioid. The dead side is the line directly out from the diaphragm. Point the dead side of the vocal mic at the guitar, and point the dead side of the guitar mic at his mouth while trying to find the best position for the live side. Surprising seperation.

 

[junplugged]

You might try using two bidirectional mics, the dead side is deader than the rear of any cardioid. The dead side is the line directly out from the diaphragm. Point the dead side of the vocal mic at the guitar, and point the dead side of the guitar mic at his mouth while trying to find the best position for the live side. Surprising seperation.

I don't understand this.

 

[cstockdale]

depends alot on what condensor you are using on the guitar, but I have had success using a pair of MXL603s on guitar and a SP B3 on vox this way:



Small diaphragm condensors have more accurate off-axis response than LDC's. I place the 603s in XY config at the 12th fret, but raise the stands so the mics are above the guitar, pointing directly towards the performer. Then, turn the mics so they are facing the floor. The guitar sounds will hit the ends of the mics at 90 degrees, but they still reproduce the sound accurately. PLUS, the vocals are above the mic, directed at 90degrees about 20 inches above the tail end of the mic: almost a null point on the 603s: very little vocal gets into these mics, I barely hear it at all.

Then, the vocal mic is placed pointing about 45 degrees up, right below the lips of the performer. This eliminates most of the bleed of the guitar to the vocal mic, and the singer can sing directly into the diaphragm of the vocal mic.

basically: note guitar mics are pointing down, vox mic is pointing up

 

[cstockdale]

and go to the mic forum and read the sticky at the top: it is a long long long thread about micing techniques, and it will take you a long time to read, but YOU WILL LEARN MORE THAN YOU CAN IMAGINE

 

[junplugged]

well, i just x/y'd for the first time, used a 57 and 58/out screen.

First test was in front of sound hole just to see how bad it can get, not as bad as I thought, boomy, but clear and boomy.

Second test was really nice, 1" above my eye 8" away from my face pointing the x/y plane towards the guitar at about the top edge. Not boomy, nice, but my DAW preamps were maxed, just enough for ok levels...

Third test was same but w/ vocals. This was a bit odd, vocals were perfect level, but then separated too much, guitar nice w/ each track for each mic panned hard L and R. It would be perfect if I had the vocals centered. But of course I'd have to dub them after ac. guit. Not perfect for me.
So i over dubbed the vocal but I couldn't do it perfect and it sounded like a short delay at points, then I brought it down and it did fill in but still a bit odd.

I think next, my only choice, since I can only rec. 2 tks simultaneously is 2 mics, 2 tracks, one for ac. guit. one vocal, some separation for levels, then re-record guitar x/y'd. I'd rather dub guitar than a vocal, this way vocal can be centered and I have even more guitar options for mixing.

the only thing is that my recent micing for ac.guit. has been up near my head, over 12th fret, so I'll maybe try over shoulder or something further away from vox since I won't be trying for the best ac.guit. sound anyway, then get the separation for vox/guit. then dub guitar x/y. This way I can still capture a decent performance on guitar but definitly capture good vox performance. Then adding guitar to a less than perfect guitar quality but good performance seems to be somewhat of a solution.