Recording Herself's Choir- Overhead Mikes. Need Advice

[zippydw]

Herself and the Liturginazi are interested in a. Recording her choir and b. updating thier system mikes at Church. So related tasks in a way.

Tall, modern church. 30 foot ceiling. Live space. Concrete and brick (described in my miking acoutic grand piano thread a while ago). Choir is jammed along one side of a pie wedge shaped church space. 25 people. They sing three rows deep.

We have a couple of 1970 vintage shure overhead pendant mikes, kind of over the center of the group. I have used with some success Shure SM58 with the gain way up, mounted sort of of high (72" with a slight angle to the center of the group) across the front. Problem is the Basso Boys in the back. The overheads don't get them. And if I increase the sensitivity too much I get alot of hiss. Way out of range for the SM58's-they are kind of industrial strength for this use....I understand.

For a temporary recording situation, what's the best way to get that back row boys. Permanently, for overhead use any thoughts on good pendant mikes...or is that conceptually a bad idea?

Any suggestions most appreciated.

 

[Jim Lad]

I'd go 2 mics, out front and place the choir so that you take full advantage of their collective contribution.
There's a reason why the back row are at the back other than "Someone has to be there" right?
Overheads in the church are a bit over the top, I think.

 

[gecko zzed]

^^^ What he said. A pair of condensors out the front should be sufficient.

 

[zippydw]

Jim I could make a joke about it being a very 'Catholic Choir'....everyone wants to be in the back row, but won't go there.

If I put much more gain behind those shures, I am going to beat my feedback limiter.

I will see if I can locate some decent condensers.

With the overheads, I thought I might be able to use some monofilament and swing the mike end over. But they are already up at about 12 feet, and woud probably move to 13 or 14 feet from the arc is I 'swagged' them over.

Maybe a second row of mikes, but they would be in the second row of the choir people.

Church work is frustrating, Little or no funds, but if it doesn't sound right everyone gripes

Go figure

 

[Jim Lad]

A couple of discretely placed condensers should give you a nice, stereo recording.
My wife is Anglican.
She'd have crossed the floor by now if it wasn't for the music.

 

[zippydw]

Herself's (she is Irish) maternal side is Anglican. They have issues with the music also.

our Liturginazi seems to have a soft spot for Amy Grant and that ilk...Surprised more folks haven't changed sides!

I am the church organist for years (though part time because most Catholic music has gone piano based with a waily girl cantor so we have a full time pianomeister) and house sound man by default because no one knows how to operate the digital sound system the Liturginazi once-removed put in before his abrupt departure except me!

 

[Folkcafe]

Among my old list of clients were Harmony Inc groups. They would put on vocal only events such as choral and barbershop. For small groups (barbershop) I would use Crown CM700's in an x/y configuration. For slightly larger vocal groups Marshall 603s has an almost sub cardiod patern and will pick up very wide. These can be a little tricky for sound reinforcement. For large choral groups I used 4 older AT hanging Omni's.

The downside to any of these for live work is gain before feedback when picking up vocals at a distance. You need a well tweeked sound system but these are workable for live.

My advice is to separate the recording from reinforcement system if you wish to attain better results. I would recommend a couple of Omni's into a small mixer or preamp for recording only. I used the Behringer ECM8000 for audience pick up on live recordings before I picked up the Earthworks SRO's. I still use one on my DBX Driverack for measurement. It is a fairly decent microphone although the noise floor is a little higher than the SRO's. Still they sound decent and are very flat. A pair of ECM8000's can be had for $100. Will certainly give you better results than the SM58's.

Don
Folkcafe

 

[Folkcafe]

"Problem is the Basso Boys in the back. The overheads don't get them."

My last post covered the what, now a little insight on the how. What you want to make sure of when micing a choir is to not have any of the area you are trying to cover more than double the distance away from the closest source. Put simply, if you have a microphone placed 3' from the front row and the back row is 6' away from the mic, the back is going to be about 6dB lower. It's just like lowering the fader on the back row.

The trick is to place the microphones a little further back and often up making the distance between the back and front a little more equal. The same principal applies to side to side coverage as well. How many mics you need depends on how close you wish to mic and how many are in the group. Go too far back and you get a lot more room. That can be good if your recording in an excellent sounding room. If the space is too reverberant, perhaps not so good.

I hope this helps,

Don
Folkcafe

 

[zippydw]

Let me see if I can chase down some of the ECM 8000s. I understand the 6Db loss. I forgot it also applies when people are on top of each other in the choir setting.

SInce my promix is maxed out because the LN has a small orchestra assembled, I am going to steal the overhead circuits and try to mike the boys closer.

THanks for the advice