Recording Guitar Amp... duh!? :P

  • Thread starter Thread starter FoulPhil
  • Start date Start date
FoulPhil

FoulPhil

Well-known member
Alright so I borrowed my buddies crate 4X12 not sure it has the best speakers, but I'm using a Jet City 50 Watt tube head. I've tried doing a ton of stuff to get it closer to what I'm looking for, but nothing seems to work out. I'll try to record some clips later for examples.

The problem is I crank the tubes and and try to use less preamp for a big chunky tone and it's so loud I can barley tell what it sounds like until I record a little and play it back. After about 30 minutes of doing this I can't tell if it's any good anymore LOL... Then I listen and it doesn't really sound like it's death metal enough so I crank up the pre-amp, but it just seems way to loud like it's not really doing what it's supposed to do. Not to mention the feed back I'm getting. And it's not turned up all the way I'm dialed in at 7.

Another issue I'm having is sometimes it feeds back even with the guitar is turned all the way down. Is this a sign that there is another problem going on maybe with the amp or guitar?

When I crank the preamp and turn down the master it sounds much closer to the death metal tones I'm looking for but not quite as chunky as I would like. Do you guys think it would be ok to record without cranking it up? To me it sounds better at lower volumes than to be cranked all the way. Any advice would be great and I'll put up some samples later today... :thumbs up:
 
That amp is not a "death metal" amp. You're gonna need help from a pedal or more to really push it into heavy overdrive that stays tight at high volumes. It has an overdive channel right? Don't overuse it. It's probably mostly fizz. Record it however it sounds best. If low volume does it, then mic it. The problem with that IMO is preamp gain isn't what gives a tube amp it's powerful tone. A lot of preamp gain without volume usually results in fizz. As you're noticing, you won't have that chunky power that only comes from big volume. That cab probably isn't doing you any favors either. I don't know what's in it, but I'm not familiar with any Crate cabs that come loaded with good speakers. Speakers make a big difference. You probably need to find the tipping point on the master vol dial in which it doesn't get louder anymore, just more saturated. For some 50w amps it's usually around 5-7. Somewhere around there. After that, it doesn't really get significantly louder, just more compressed and fatter. If you want a good balance of preamp gain plus power tube chunk, find that balance point and try it there. Maybe go a little to either side of that balance point. It's going to be loud. Get the tone you want and leave the amp alone. From there it's just a matter of moving the mic around.
 
It's all I have to work with right now. I'm not sure I'm getting any better sounds than just using a amp sim. My computer keeps screwing up too. Crashes and blue screens! I've tried everything. Some days it works better than others LOL. I need some serious equipment upgrades! DAMN...
 
You might not do better than a good sim with what you have. I'm not saying your stuff is bad, it's just not high-level stuff that's suited for "death metal" tones. You could probably get pretty good general rock tones though.

Let's hear what you've gotten so far.
 
isolate your amp away from your mixing environment!
at the least, cover the amp with a bunch of thick blankets, close mic it and think about getting an amp that suits your style better, has more control of gain and volume, lets you dial in what you want at any volume level.
 
I'll see if I saved anything I've recorded so far. If not I'll mic it up and cross my fingers that my computer doesn't crash :P
 
OK here is one I did on Friday. Unfortunately I deleted all the other shit I tried out of frustration I guess lol. This is one of my buddies playing a Mega Death cover. This is without so much pre-amp and mostly cranked tubes. I think the preamp was at about 3 and the main was at 7 and on the overdrive channel.

View attachment GTR1.mp3
 
That's not that bad at all. Not nearly as bad as I was expecting. You metal hacks hate mids, huh? :laughings:

So what's that clip missing that you wish it had more or less of?
 
Sounds pretty cool to me.
I don't know if it's room ambience or an open back amp/cab but it sounds a little more ambient than the guitars would be in the original.
........
Actually, just compared the two - Yours kind sounds like the back of an open mic cab.

It sounds like the amp tone/settings are fine, but mic you could play with the mic position.

Hands up who immediately sang along! :thumbs up:
 
Megadeth man! I think I thought it was cool when I was about 10.
That's not a snarky comment. I distinctly remember borrowing that album off a dude when I was in primary school.
 
Steenamaroo said:
Megadeth man! I think I thought it was cool when I was about 10.
That's not a snarky comment. I distinctly remember borrowing that album off a dude when I was in primary school.
Click to expand...

So what song is it? I'll youtube that shit and see what the original sounds like.
 
Greg_L said:
That's not that bad at all. Not nearly as bad as I was expecting. You metal hacks hate mids, huh? :laughings:

So what's that clip missing that you wish it had more or less of?
Click to expand...

The mid was left in the middle between the 4 and 5 lol. I guess I wanted it heavier sounding. To me it sounds good for Rock, but not for metal... I'm thinking about selling it and getting a Laney Ironheart which also has a neat WATT control built in where you can turn the watts down from 1 to 100. Seems like it would be easier to record if you didn't have to crank it so loud.
 
FoulPhil said:
The mid was left in the middle between the 4 and 5 lol. I guess I wanted it heavier sounding. To me it sounds good for Rock, but not for metal... I'm thinking about selling it and getting a Laney Ironheart which also has a neat WATT control built in where you can turn the watts down from 1 to 100. Seems like it would be easier to record if you didn't have to crank it so loud.
Click to expand...
Loud is not difficult to record. Don't wimp out man! You think Dave Mustaine records quietly? Do you think Kill em All was recorded with the wattage turned down? You think Lemmy does anything quietly? Fuck no! Metal hammer down thunder blood spit puke metal to the balls Waaaaaahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaa! Ok sorry. That clip you posted was not terrible. Keep in mind that you're listening to it out of context. Put it in a mix with drums and bass and see what happens. Dave's tone in the clip has mids and less low end. Put more mids into yours.

P.S. - Mustaine uses the same amps as me! Marshall JVM410. I'm so fucking metal!

FoulPhil said:
Click to expand...


Might be one of the worst songs I've ever heard. It's upsetting that horrible shit like that has made people rich.
 
Greg_L said:
Loud is not difficult to record. Don't wimp out man! You think Dave Mustaine records quietly? Do you think Kill em All was recorded with the wattage turned down? You think Lemmy does anything quietly? Fuck no! Metal hammer down thunder blood spit puke metal to the balls Waaaaaahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaa! Ok sorry. That clip you posted was not terrible. Keep in mind that you're listening to it out of context. Put it in a mix with drums and bass and see what happens. Dave's tone in the clip has mids and less low end. Put more mids into yours.

P.S. - Mustaine uses the same amps as me! Marshall JVM410. I'm so fucking metal!



Might be one of the worst songs I've ever heard. It's upsetting that horrible shit like that has made people rich.
Click to expand...

You're right. TOTALLY. Totally right, but... Just keep in mind that when you can't move the amp into another room being able to get that cranked amp tone at lower sound levels would make it soooooo fucking much easier. What I don't like about it is I'm not going for "METAL" tone man LOL. It almost kinda sounds like the tone in the video. The problem is it sounds too much like mega death and I want it to sound more like Carcass or something :P

 
I would be wary of dropping more cash on a variable power amplifier. I know they have become popular in the last few years but I know of only one that does a really convincing job(well, I would say that wouldn't i!) But seriously, it ain't as simple as just cranking the HT down.

As you have found, recording a snorting 50 watter at full chat is a trial and you have also found that it forks your hearing after 10 minutes or so and you cannot then make sensible decisions about balance. This is called a Temporary Threshold Shift and indicates the onset of DAMAGE. One day it will be less temporary, the next even less so until..Don't want to be a killjoy but facts are facts.

One possible solution is a speaker attenuator or power soak. They are not a perfect answer but allow you to chop the level to around 90dB SPL which, whilst still loud, is safe to listen to in bursts for several hours.

But, as others have ventured, you might be better off with a good pedal (again, I would say tha......?) . Get 95% of your tone with that and keep the SPL at a comfortable (for everyone!) 80-85dB.

Dave.
 
FoulPhil said:
You're right. TOTALLY. Totally right, but... Just keep in mind that when you can't move the amp into another room being able to get that cranked amp tone at lower sound levels would make it soooooo fucking much easier. What I don't like about it is I'm not going for "METAL" tone man LOL. It almost kinda sounds like the tone in the video. The problem is it sounds too much like mega death and I want it to sound more like Carcass or something :P

Click to expand...

Yeah those guitars are ripping pretty hard. What kind of amps and cabs do they use?

I'm just a big fan of moving some air and soundwaves. Great tones can be had with small amps and low volumes. People do it all the time. I'm just not sure how you're going to get crushing riffs without volume. After hearing your clip I think your amp might be capable of the high gain stuff you want. I didn't know those Jet City heads could do that much gain. And like I said earlier, an OD pedal could help. You just need to keep playing with it. Maybe you could build or buy an attenuator. That will take care of your volume while still getting the power tubes involved. But it also takes some of the cab and speaker dynamic away. Getting those speakers moving is a big part of it.
 
In the studio Carcass uses a bunch of amps. I guess what ever the engineers or producers says, but from an interview I read one of the guitarists said they use a 5150 with a Marshall jackhammer pedal.

I might just invest in one of these things and a long ass speaker cable so I can move it to the back room if it's still too loud.
Jet City Amplification JetStream 12 ISO 1x12 Isolation Guitar Speaker Cabinet | Musician's Friend

Then add one of these for a more death metal type tone...
TightMetal Distortion by Amptweaker - Amptweaker.com - good tone comes from tweaking...

I don't really play live and money is kind of tight so I'm not sure. Just keep in mind that the Jet City amp can get pretty heavy on it's own, but ends up too fizzy.

I guess I'll have to save up some money :D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top