Recording chain hardware noise issues. How to connect it all?

X

Xiaro

New member
Looking to use my setup to both record vocals and use mics for podcast/live streaming ect..

Hardware:

Mackie 1402-vlz3 Mixer
MDX4600 Hardware Compressor
UR22 Audio interface
Computer
Shure SM7b Mic

How its hooked up now: Just trying to get a non noisey/good volume signal to computer.
**the compressor is hooked into channel 1 with a insert cable, during mic level setup all compressor settings are off ect. for that channel.

Right now I have my mic connected into channel 1 using XLR to XLR
Mixer
- All knobs\faders to Unity or off ect..
- Solo and PFL button on for mic channel
- Change gain during normal/loudest talking level I would produce requires a near max gain to get the mackie to show around just under Line level (0db) to around the 5db. OK cool!

Compressor
- Next i go to compressor settings, Im leaving all compressor settings off and only using it for gate currently to cut out background noise picked up from cranking the gain on the mixer. OK cool! Levels on compressor match those coming from mixer during speech.

UR22 AI THE PROBLEM
- Next I run a 2x 1/8 - 1x 1/8th from the MAIN OUTS on the mixer to the input 1 on the UR22
- Hi-z is turned off ect ect..
- Now I need to crank the gain input on channel 1 to 100% to get the signal from the mixer to the UR22 to be the same. This introduces a solid layer of "noise" to the signal which carries over to the actual recording =(

Now! Doing research ive heard you can use the LINE IN on the mackie instead of XLR (which I tried). I have to UP the faders on the mixer, both from the channel and the main fader to match the dB from before.
However this does fix the problem from the UR22 as it doesnt need to use as much gain I guess? However there is still the problem of having all the faders cranked just to get a signal and from everything ive read this just isnt the best option using mics.

Room Noise

Now I know my computer has a ton of noise, and one main issue Ive had is once all the compressor settings where dialed in I would still get the noise from the background in with my recordings when the gate turned off resulting in what sounded like background tinging from my microphone!

So I decided to see how low I could get my room noise, turned off my computer (brought very quite laptop just to use passively to power the ur22, also piled blankes on the laptop and hid it under the desk). Turned ALL lights off and sat still in the dark. STILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL the same noise WTF timmy, I mean it cuts down about half the signal I need to use on my gate but either rooms emminate noise far greater than I can understand or rooms really do need to be treated that hardcore just to get a signal that isnt full of noise?

I feel like this is mission impossible just to get a half a real signal to a computer, how is it this hard?

Any help in any direction would help! Is it bad equipment, THAT bad of a room, hooked up wrong? All cables are new and bought from a music store for a reliable source.

Thanks a million

- Lost audio user.
 
I spent a fortune on my PC to get the quietest possible system, the case, fans used, hard disk, optical drives e.t.c.
 
Xiaro said:
I feel like this is mission impossible just to get a half a real signal to a computer, how is it this hard?
Click to expand...

Maybe you're making it harder than it needs ot be. :)


Here's a simple question....why do you even need to use the mixer.....and then in turn, then needing compressor?

IOW...if you are using the comp just to gate the mixer....stop using both, plug the mics into the interface, and then see what you have.
 
miroslav said:
Here's a simple question....why are you needing to use the mixer.....and then in turn, then needing compressor?

IOW...if you are using the comp just to gate the mixer....stop using both, plug the mics into the interface, and then see what you have.
Click to expand...

Well I got the mixer first (need it for adding guests to podcasts), then I had background noise issues AND knew I wanted to record vocals (rap) so using the hardware compressor seems like a better idea than software at some point.

It would be nice to have it all actually working, I know I can plug 1 mic into the UR22 and get line level sound but that doesnt help me at all.

Im open to using any other suggestions but I know ill still have background noise from gaining the mic with the UR22 even with my desktop turned off. If theres a better software solution to running just the mackie for podcasts and using DAW to gate out I am all up for it. Not married to the choices ive made
 
It just doesnt make sense to me that you get a mixer then plug a mic into it and have to CRANK the gain to 5% off max gain to get line level... This is with 3 different mics as well. Doesnt the problem seem to be right there? I guess I just dont know enough yet.

My mouth is literally covering the front of the mic, didnt think id need 100% gain boost to pick up line leve =(
 
Look....I'm not going to twist your arm to lose the mixer/comp.....my point is that I don't understand why you think you NEED to plug the mic into the mixer, then use the comp to try and remove noise from the mixer, then plug that whole mess into the interface, where by the time you're done, you have all this built up noise....???

Why can't/won't you just simply plug the mic into the interface and move on?
Is it because you have the mixer and comp and just feel compelled to use them....or is there some other reason that you are using them?

Can you explain?

:)

What's your real goal....to record a nice, clean signal in as easy a way as possible....or to somehow find a way to make the mixer/comp work just because you have them...? ;)
 
miroslav said:
Look....I'm not going to twist your arm to lose the mixer/comp.....my point is that I don't understand why you think you NEED to plug the mic into the mixer, then use the comp to try and remove noise from the mixer, then plug that whole mess into the interface, where by the time you're done, you have all this built up noise....???

Why can't/won't you just simply plug the mic into the interface and move on?
Is it because you have the mixer and comp and just feel compelled to use them....or is there some other reason that you are using them?

Can you explain?

:)

What's your real goal....to record a nice, clean signal in as easy a way as possible....or to somehow find a way to make the mixer/comp work just because you have them...? ;)
Click to expand...

I DO understand your point on the issue of recording 1 signal source for quality yes I prob should and will just strip down to the ur22 for recording vocals/single livestreams.

My original issue and I appologiuse if it wasnt clear enough was this and ill add a few noob questions as well if you could please answer them:

a) How do I record a podcast in a room using 2+ mics (almost always 3 or 4 mics)? Even if I just use the UR22 or something with 4 bays OR just my mixer with the already 4 bays HOW do I get rid of the background noise from the mic gain, people setting or gently tapping the table or figgitting or a pin dropping 4 doors down....?
- Also usually these podcasts are all done LIVE (think joe rogan experiance) and so im not sure how id record a lower level then balance it back up and edit out noise live without a hardware compressor?

b) Even just using the AI for things like single live recording or vocals I still have the same issue of gaining the ur22 and having background noise to clean up. ** This this fixed in the real world with room treatment solely?


Thanks again!
 
OKAY did your test.

Plugged JUST my mic XLR-XLR into AI

now, using the mix knob to listen in on the input WITHOUT any gain at all applied im getting a ton of static in my headset. When I turn the mix knob over to full DAW there is ZERO noise.

Where is this noice coming from? Its not the cable as I can disconnected it and still there. Is this how much noise the ur22 make normally?!?! or is it from the usb ports on my computer?

this noise directly records over even without a mic plugged in and with the gain knob at off


EDIT: plugged UR22 into laptop same issue....... Defective ur22? Am I that unlucky? (I know I am)

Edit#2: wow this might be jsut a defective UR22, FML.... would be me... obv. 200km round trip to hope this is the issue...

Yeep not there in second line in...

Well still not sure how to record podcasts though =(
 
OK...got it....you want 3-4 mics simultaneously for the podcast.

You'll have to try and close-mic the people as much as possible...that way you don't need as much gain, which also pulls up the room noise and noise in general.
You may need to do some basic room treatment to minimized that noise....don't put mics on/near hard reflective srufaces...tell the folks to avoid "finger tapping" etc...etc.

Bring up the preamp gain loud enough for the mic sources, but not real loud that they pick up every little click/pop/tap in the room.
From there....just try to gain-stage your mixer output to the interface as best as you can.
You want mixers Line output into the interface's Line input....NOT into the interface's preamp/mic inputs.
If you have a decent signal set up with the mics/mixer....you should be able to send a decent Line signal to the interface, and maybe avoid that comp altogether.

Without having the exact pieces of equipment...it's hard for anyone to tell you exactly where to set knobs and whatnot...so you have to just apply the best gain stagging possible....and then live with what you have.
 
miroslav said:
OK...got it....you want 3-4 mics simultaneously for the podcast.

You'll have to try and close-mic the people as much as possible...that way you don't need as much gain, which also pulls up the room noise and noise in general.
You may need to do some basic room treatment to minimized that noise....don't put mics on/near hard reflective srufaces...tell the folks to avoid "finger tapping" etc...etc.

Bring up the preamp gain loud enough for the mic sources, but not real loud that they pick up every little click/pop/tap in the room.
From there....just try to gain-stage your mixer output to the interface as best as you can.
You want mixers Line output into the interface's Line input....NOT into the interface's preamp/mic inputs.
If you have a decent signal set up with the mics/mixer....you should be able to send a decent Line signal to the interface, and maybe avoid that comp altogether.

Without having the exact pieces of equipment...it's hard for anyone to tell you exactly where to set knobs and whatnot...so you have to just apply the best gain stagging possible....and then live with what you have.
Click to expand...

So I think what ive had is a run of bad luck mixed with lack of information and whatnot. Please let me reclarify my solution below and inform me if I am wrong.

I think what happened is that I got my signal fine from the mixer to compressor or just mixer fine but when it came to the interface, because the inputs are also the pre's it was introducing the noise. If there is such a thing as a AI with just a input that this would correct the issue?

If this is correct than I believe between this and my added knowledge of how to set levels and some room treatment I will be more than fine =)

Thanks for any help!

Edit: just as added information, the audio from the mixer and comp had ZERO noise while listening to it but once i plugged into the AI and swapped my headset over to listen to the end of the chain and the required gain boost from the AI THEN I got the added noise. Im really hoping this is fixed from an input only AI
 
Actually it could be this cable im using to go from the mixer main outs to the AI.

Basically what I know for SURE.
I have a completely noise free source coming from mixer/comp to AI. Once connected to ai and turned up there is device noise or noise some other noise NOT from the original signal.

This is good news but was very difficult to figure out haha.

Miroslav Thank you sir, a big help to let me look at different angles. =] Going to try find a new cable first, if not a new AI. Im not 100% convinced its not either a defective AI or bad cable as I believe it is using it as a proper pass-through input.

Will update as I figure it out, may help someone else out one day with similar problems.
 
I have a cable question..........

Currently I am running a cable from the MAIN OUT 1/4 jacks on my mixer, so I am using a 2x 1/4 to 1x 1/4 jack cable... However Im pretty sure the only form that exsist in is as an insert?

Should I be running 2 cables 1/4 to 1/4 and use both channels on my AI if i want to have stereo sound? or Should I just run 1? I may be running an insert cable as my out which i believe is unbalanced therfor causing the noise issues?

I dont have any 1/4 to 1/4 to even try this till tomorrow due to thanksgiving =(
 
Okay I found an old instrument cable (not 100% trustworthy, though it looks in good shape and is a pro series cable from years ago)
Tried both Left main out and right main out into both line 1 and line 2 on the UR22.

With only listening to just the DAW side (eg: mix knob to DAW and listening to music or with nothing playing there is zero background noise, perfect sound)
Soon as I start turning up the Line (with the mix know now listening in on the Line) I get noise, increasing slightly all the way up to max gain.

I think ive done all the testing I can on my end, its either (I think):

a) The cable/cables im using to go from the mixer out to the AI
b) the audio interface

With NO cables other than my headset hooked into the AI I get background noise once the either of the lines are turned past about 75% (100% being quite loud noise)

Its about 260km to swap the AI, plus im not sure if I should even stick to the ur22 at all?
Cables would cost a bunch as well if I dont really need them.

Thanks again for anyones help!
 
OK....

Let's back it up.

If you're getting a nice clean signal at the mixer (remove the comp from the equation for now)....set the main output faders on the "U" (stands for unity gain) mark of your mixer. I assume you already have your mic channel faders set where you get a decent mic signal.
Now...using a pair of TRS to TRS cables....plug them into the Aux Main outs of the mixer and also into the two channels of your interface.
If you want to use the MAIN outs that are XLR on the mixer....don't use XLR to XLR cable, use XLR to TRS cables, since the interface thinks you have mics connected when you use XLRs at the interface.

Don't use TS instrument cables...they are unbalanced and will only add noise to the equation.

Once you have that connected, with source feeding the mic(s)....adjust the Gain knob at the interface (leave the mixer alone at this point) until you see the red peak LED light, then back it off some so you see NO red LED lighting on any source. material.


When you get all that working....then you can add the comp into the chain....but I see no real reason for it at this point, as it only complicates your hook-up.
 
Sounds good! So I was using the wrong cable, tried to run out to the big box stores but found nothing. Will go get 2 TRS to TRS tomorrow and see if I can get the same signal out of the mixer as into the computer like I should without the hardware interference.

Pretty excited, I learned an insane amount in the 8 hours of painstaking googling plus from your replies. I do now at least after months of owning my compressor have a decent grasp on ratio, setting the threshold and then leveling out with boosting back in what you lost in compression.

Thanks again for your help, made all the difference =]

** Right now when im setting channel line level for each mic im only using gain to set the level and not using the fader over unity (for that channel). Would there be an argument for finding a balance between increased fader and lowering gain? I felt like it was better to just get all the worst out of the way right off the bat then flow everything else through Unity level into the computer in a sense (keep the levels untouched past that first boost). Also im just leaving the main mix fader at Unity.
 
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