recording a live concert

G

geekgurl

New member
Hi everyone:

I've done a search on the topic of concert recording but wasn't able to find the specific info I need.

Next weekend, I have the privilege of sharing the stage with some fantastic musicians. If they (or the their management) is willing to let me record the event for posterity, I will be very happy.

But only if I can get an intelligible recording! :mad:

Here's the situation:

* medium-size venue (I don't really know how to quantify that except say standard live-venue-club size)

* music is Latin Rock/salsa: lots of percussion, probably horns, and to make things interesting, all this is going on at rock volume (with electric guitars), not jazz volume (like a straight-up salsa/latin jazz ensemble)

* I'm going to be NOT playing or on stage at first, then I'm going to be on for part of the time, then I'll be booted off again.

* I plan on using my VS880 hard-disk recorder (so, mixer is included)

* the only mics I have are a pair of MXL 603S, an SM 58, and a Rode NT2. I figure if ANY of these will work it will probably be just the 603s

I'd like to keep the recording simple and mics unobtrusive; can I get a good sound with just stereo pair? Should I combine that with a board feed, or just use a board feed, or just mic, or ...? Will I absolutely get crappy results unless I get different mics?

Input appreciated even if I don't get clearance to do this at this show. Will be valuable info in the future.

Thanks,

gg
 
You could use direct outs or inserts from the FOH console if they are available. Trouble is, you are limited on your number of inputs to the Roland so you will have to pick and choose which channels on the FOH console that are most important to the recording.

What's good for the house probably won't sound too good for a recording with a stereo or monitor feed from the board.

What I would suggest if feasable is a larger(more channels), separate console to feed the inserts or direct outs from the FOH console and use an ADAT to record or take the stereo buss or mix buss from the second console into your Roland for direct two track recording.

You need to find out what is available on the FOH console and if the engineer will let you use the inserts or direct outs.

Will you have the opportunity to attend the sound check?

Hope this helps. Good luck.
 
Hi Sennheiser:

Thanks for the input. I'm going to find out more about the situation at the rehearsal later this week.

I have six inputs on the VS (I have an external converter to use via SPDIF, plus the 4 inputs that are stock), so I'm hoping that I can get something good out of those without going to another mixer for 2 channels first. I'm pretty sure I'm supposed to be there for sound check, so at least there's that. As I said, I hope to find out whether I can record this and if so if I can use feeds off of the FOH board later this week.

Do you have any thoughts on getting a stereo recording using 2 mics, if I can't go thru the board?
 
Someone else would be better qualifed to answer that question for you.

Do you know how many inputs to the FOH console will be used?
 
Back in the '50's I believe that nearly all recorded by just putting a microphone in the middle of the room and recording it when it sounded kinda right. I think some of Elvis's stuff was done this way, but I'm probably wrong.
If this was done back then, you might want to try the stereo pair idea after all.
Best get that backed up by someone who knows though.
 
You have six inputs to work worth, I'd use as many as you can, you don't have to keep something that sounds bad either, but it's there if you need it.

If your external converter is better than the Roland's, I'd use that for stereo setup. (If you don't have a stereo-bar, you can get one for like $6 from most music stores.) I'd use the 57 to spot mic an important percussion instrument that might get lost in the stereo mix.

Hell, if you could borrow three more 57's you could spot mic maybe more percussion horns, etc.

Otherwise selective spot micing placement of the NT2 would be a start.

Beware of phase problems.

-Jett
 
I'll never forget the time I recorded a live gig. It was all very challenging at the time, because I had much less gear than what I have now. But it actually worked out very well, all things considering. Here's what I did:

One overhead mic for the drums (It was an NT2, actually -- I WOULDN'T recommend this one for drum overheads, by the way. Cymbals often sound too present with it), and another for the kick (it was an sm7). The overhead and kick mics both fed Joemeek preamps on the way to . . . get this . . . a Hi-fi stereo VCR. :D

The bass guitar was plugged in to an ART Tube MP, which has two outputs. One of the outputs fed his bass amp, and the other fed a Boss BR-8 multitrack recorder.

The guitar was mic'ed with a 57, which went to a dedicated signal splitter (you can get them at Mars for like $50, I think). One of the outputs of the signal splitter fed his amp, while the other fed input #2 of the Boss. :D

The vocals were take straight out of the board, and fed the input of a minidisk recorder.

So I've got signals coming from everywhere going everywhere and being recorded on a million different mediums. Funny thing is I was pretty poor at the time, and it was all I had. But I somehow got it all to work. Eventually everything was just converted to .wav files, edited and mixed using Sound Forge and Cool Edit.

The tricky part, obviously, was lining up all of the different tracks so they would coincide, considering they were all recorded on separate mediums. But the time-stretch function worked like a champ. It was easy to line things up due to the bleed you'd get from all the mics. So I'd just take the start and end point of the drums and match it up to where I heard them starting and ending on the bleed from the guitar mic . . . and time-stretched everything untill they sunk.
 
Heh. Wow, that was one crazy-ass setup, Chess. A lot of creativity went into it, and kudos to you for using the gear you had to its potential.

Since I have six inputs on the VS (when I use the DI Port thru SPDIF), I think I will use that VS as my only recording medium. My problem is, I have to be very transparent; I can't go sticking boxes in between guitars and signals and cluttering up the stage with additional mics. It's cruel, I know, but I'm not being hired or even ASKED to record this; I just want it for my posterity. IF they even let me record it. I think I'm stuck with board feeds + two mics or maybe even just board feeds, or maybe just two mics. That's kinda why I was asking which two mics would be best.

I'm pretty sure the FOH is going to sound pretty balanced; at least, congas and other instruments that sometimes get swallowed will be heard.
 
geekgurl,

I'm not an expert or anything with recording live, however a suggestion would be to take a feed from the FOH desk of the mix. The only down side of this is that the mix you will get won't sound like a CD mix because the mix is for the venue. Also set up you MXL 603S's somewhere in front of the stage.. depending on how accessible it is to set them up, so that they can pick up what the audience will be hearing.

When mixing, turn up what you recorded with the MXL's and add a bit of the FOH mix and it shouldn't sound too bad.

How does that sound?

Porter
 
geekgurl said:
Heh. Wow, that was one crazy-ass setup, Chess.
Click to expand...

If I had to do it now, I'd probably go with the way you're planning it. Just do as many feeds to the VS-880's inputs as possible, going out of the mixer's inserts. Maybe trow up a couple a dem six-o-trees or ecm eight-tousands in an XY or maybe even a wide spread.

The only thing that could really throw a monkey wrench in to the project is if the mixer's insters aren't available. :D The sound guy could be using them for effects - you never know.

If the inserts aren't free then I'm afraid splitters are the way to go. They won't necessarily get in the way of anything. Just go up to the guitar player and bassist and say something like . . . "Oh, the sound guy told me to have you plug in to this thing right here on the way to your amp. Don't worry, it will make you sound better (maybe tell him it has toobs). Trust me." And then do your thing. His amp will still get it's feed. Your Roland will get it's feed . . . the sound man will still get his (from the mic), and everyone will be happy.

Only problem is if you're taking the signal direct from the electric guitar, you'll have to re-amp (or POD) the track later, which could actually sound really cool. Think of the possibilities. :D Why do I always have to make things so damn complicated?
 
Matrix Out Of FOH

I didn't read all the options that were given back to you but the ones I read all sounded like good ones.

I would try a combination of direct and mic's. The mics will probably sound best at front of house if it is centrally located, but in clubs you never can tell! When I was on the road we recorded a lot at FOH with a stereo mic and had good results. The key to that is is that it's only going to be as good as the whole FOH chain:musicians, mics, PA, engineer etc.

If the console has a matrix out see about getting the engineer to dial you a "rhythm section" mix on your own sends, and if you have enough send the lead instruments on to a seperate stereo pair, then vocals and so on. If that's available. If not, see what options are available at the monitor console. You might be able to set something up there as well.

Personally, I've actually had good success recording my band live with the stereo out on our little Mackie 1604 straight in to a MD!

If you go with a couple of different options you can mix them to something that you like. Hopefully!

Good luck!

Mic
 
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