Recording a direct out with interface

[ecc83]

bdenton: Unless you have personal experience of both bits of kit I think you are overlooking the 12-13dB level mismatch?

The Tech21 Trademark 60 has a nominal output of -20 dBu from the SansAmp XLR output.

The Roland Duo-Capture Ex has a nominal input level of -46 – +2 dBu on the TRS line inputs.

Where is there a mismatch?

You have the advantage of me sir in that I could not find a specification for the SansAmp XLR output.
All I could see was "Balanced XLR suitable for feeding a PA mixer". That to me would imply a +4dBu level.
Grr! Been in this game nearly 50 yrs and STILL manufacturers can't write a decent, consistent spec!

Anyhoos...OP? Get that mixer.
Dave.

 

[bdenton]

First there appears to be some confusion about dB SPL (which is used to measure Sound Pressure Levels, or the level your ears are hearing) and dBu (which is used to measure a voltage), which are not the same thing. The only thing you need to be concerned about is the voltage coming out of the SansAmp output, or dBu.

While I am reasonably sure that the level of the SansAmp output tracks the amp's "master" volume control (the direct outs on all of my amps do), that doesn't really mean anything other than you will get the largest dBu value (and the greatest dB SPL value) with the "master" volume turned to its loudest and the smallest dBu value (and the smallest db SPL value) with the "master" volume turned to its least value.

But, what are the actual values of the "largest dBu value" and the "smallest dBu value"? That's up to the amp manufacturer. I don't know why they would do it, but the amp manufacturer could set the "largest dBu value" to -60 dBu and the "smallest dBu value" to some value smaller than that, or they could set the "smallest dBu value" at +4 dBu and the "largest dBu value" at some value larger than that. And there's no guarantee that the dBu value exactly tracks the dB SPL value.

So, you really have to look at dB SPL and dBu as the two totally separate things they are.

Now...to the OP...

I would recommend that you not buy a pad or a mixer or anything other than the XLR-TRS balanced cable I recommended. The reasoning behind this is quite simple...you will only be buying one inexpensive item that will in all probability solve your problem.

And even if the cable by itself doesn't solve your problem, you're going to need it for any other solutions you might need to try.

Make the connections between the amp and the interface I described in my earlier post. Turn the SENS control for the input you are using on the Roland Duo-Capture Ex to its lowest level, and set your guitar amp to whatever level you wish to use. With Cakewalk (or whatever DAW you are using) running, hit a chord on the guitar and gradually turn up the SENS control until the input channel in Cakewalk shows somewhere between -15 dBFS and -18 dBFS.

If the input level to your Roland Duo-Capture Ex is still too high, then invest in a -20 dBu pad. You can probably find an XLR pad that you would plug into your SansAmp output with one end, then plug the XLR end of your XLR-TRS into the pad. If not, 1/4" versions are available in various connector configurations. You want to make sure you get a balanced pad, and if you need to get another cable to plug the pad into your Roland interface make sure it's a TRS balanced cable; you should not use an ordinary guitar cable.

But if you make the correct connections with your XLR-TRS balanced cable you probably will not need anything other than that cable.

And, on the subject of connections, do not plug anything other than a microphone cable into the XLR inputs on your Roland interface as the XLR and 1/4" jacks have different input level specs...

 

[St. Sixtus]

I'm not planning on throwing my money out the window, so yeah: I'll buy the XLR-TRS cable first, and if that doesn't work I'll invest in a mixer or pad. I'll need that cable anyway.

Heck, this whole direct recording thing got pretty convoluted. The amp might be from the 90's, but the description of those outputs aren't too clear. Still, the cable should work. I'll have a look for it tomorrow.

Cheers everyone for the help, I'll let you know how things turn out!

 

[St. Sixtus]

Right, so I finally got round to hooking everything up; using the balanced XLR/TRS cable into the interface and lo and behold: it works!

Now, you're probably going to get a crack out of this, but now it's too quiet. The amp's on max and I can barely hear my guitar in the interface's direct monitor or Output. It's probably just a software thing, I'll keep on muddling. I'm not used to Sonar X1 anyway, might try it in REAPER.