Recording 3 direct & 1 mixed on the 424mkIII

[Jo3p]

Hi,

I'm trying to find out how, if at all, I can record a combination of (mixed) channels on the 424mkIII. The setup is like this:

microphone (track 1)
guitar (track 2)
bass (track 3)
drums (track 4)

Which should work well with the 4-track recorder. However, I want to use not one, but three microphones to record the drums and then mix them to track 4, like this:

Channel input 1-4 to mic/line
Channel input track 5 and 6 to ... 5 and 6
record function for track 1-3 in direct mode
record function for track 4 on BUSS R
PAN track 4-6 completely to the RIGHT

Would I have any chance to achieve my goal? Should it be done in a different fashion? Can it be done on the 424mkIII at all? Do I actually misunderstand the complete inner workings of the 424mkIII ?

I can't try it at this time, hence the question.

Regards,

Jo3p

 

[ErichS]

As far as I can tell that should work. Give it a try and let us know the outcome.

There is a blurb in the manual (414, 424MKII could be different) concerning correct bus positioning using the pan knob when recording "direct" and via "bus" simultaneously. I didn't quite understand it but it seemed to say (for your suggested setup) that all direct channels should be panned LEFT to avoid bleed from the input on the RIGHT bus.

You might have to experiment with that some.

 

[DigitalSmigital]

No, you must choose between Buss or Direct Modes.

You need a sub-mixer.

Do you have a PA? Use that.

3 mics on drum kit into PA
PA line out to 424's ch 1 Direct

Guitar ch 2 Direct

Bass ch 3 Direct

Vocals into ch 4 Direct

 

[ErichS]

No, you must choose between Buss or Direct Modes.

It works on the 414 - I just did it. But I agree that a mixer would be a better solution.

 

[DigitalSmigital]

But you must be multi-tracking...

Jo3p is recording a live band. In that case, you must choose either Direct or Buss mode.

 

[ErichS]

Jo3p is recording a live band. In that case, you must choose either Direct or Buss mode.

I'm not sure what you mean, but I routed 3 realtime signals simultaneously to tracks 1-3 in direct mode (all panned left), and one signal to input 4/track4 in bus mode (panned right) and two signals to inputs 5/6 and 7/8.

All recorded simultaneously. Of course im not playing anything meaningful, I'm just hitting strings and pressing keys while in record mode to see is this would work - but that is still recording live and simultaneously while in direct mode and bus mode.

As expected tracks 1-3 only recorded the direct input and track 4 got everything else.

As I said, this was done on a 414, I don't know if the input routing capabilities were changed on the 424. The 414 has a direct / bus mode switch for each (main) input. Does the 424 just have a global direct/ bus mode selector?

 

[Jo3p]

I don't have enough instruments / microphones to try all six channels at the same time. However, I tried three with the settings like ErichS described, and channel 1-3 record 'direct' on the corresponding tracks, while channel 4-6 all appear on track 4. So far, it does actually seem to work. Next week I will give it a try in our 'practicestudio' using al six channels at once.

>The 414 has a direct / bus mode switch for each (main) input.
>Does the 424 just have a global direct/ bus mode selector?

For each of the 4 channels it does have a separate direct/safe/bus selector. Next thing to find out is whether I can use the CUE mixer as a monitor for singing while recording, which I will try tonight.

Thank you both for your replies.

Jo3p

 

[MichaelM]

Next thing to find out is whether I can use the CUE mixer as a monitor for singing while recording, which I will try tonight.

Yes you can, thats what it's there for

 

[ErichS]

So far, it does actually seem to work. Next week I will give it a try in our 'practicestudio' using al six channels at once.
Jo3p

That sounds good, my only concern now is that inputs 5-8 are line level. If you are not using a mic preamp you might not be able to get enough signal to tape if you are running mics to those inputs.

 

[Jo3p]

my only concern now is that inputs 5-8 are line level. If you are not using a mic preamp you might not be able to get enough signal to tape if you are running mics to those inputs.

That's exactly what came to my mind this morning. However, I'm not very familiar with the difference between line and XLR inputs, so I'll just go and find out next week.

I do have another mixer, but it's a 12 track machine (Samick SM122, still looking for a manual), that's neither good nor luggable.

I might consider purchasing a (very simple) 4 XLR input mixer, does anyone happen to have any idea what might be worth looking at?

 

[A Reel Person]

Jo3p

I've pondered your question, and studied the 424mkIII and manual, and yes, your proposed setup should work. As specified above, keep your direct channels (1/2/3) panned hard left and your buss-R channels (4/5/6) panned hard right, and you're there.

Keep in mind, that on the 424mkIII, the inputs 5/6 are Mic/Line inputs with Trim (preamp) control and Pan, on 1/4" inputs (with no XLR's). You may need XLR-to-1/4" transformer/adapters.

[The inputs 7/8 on the 424mkIII are the ones that are strictly line level inputs, with no Trim or Pan].

[424mkII's a slightly different story].

Bottom line: go for it!