Recommendations for monitors?

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Justus Johnston

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I apologize in advance if this is in the wrong forum.

I've been using a pair of Event Tuned Reference 5 near fields for my home recording for about 8 months now, and I recently had an experience that I felt was sort of eye-opening.

I recently did a mix at home of one of my personal compositions, and I thought it was a fairly solid mix. It sounded good through the Events. It sounded GREAT through my large home theatre speakers I keep for reference, so I thought I'd take it up to the studio I'm an assistant at and show off/get critique. Well, I threw it into my car's CD player on the way up, and the saxophone was just way cutting in the high-mids about 3k, and it was really obvious. I started really listening to it, and noticed that quite a few sounds sounded like they had a bit too much 3k. I thought to myself "well my car system is shitty anyways". Then I got to work, and played it in Studio A (NS-10s in a VERY well-tuned room), and..same problem, cutting high-mids everywhere, especially the sax! I ended up mastering the track with a 3K cut to compensate, and eventually got the mix sounding halfway decent everywhere (well, halfway decent for me, I've still got a long ways to go), but it was the first time I'd ever really noticed such a thing. I guess my ears are FINALLY starting to develop and hear some of this detail the pros are always talking about.

So, to make a long story short, I feel like I've just taken an important developmental step in my sound career, and I'd like to step up my personal monitoring at home for more accuracy. My room at home isn't as well-tuned as at work, but I've done some treatment (with the help of my boss' friend, a professional acoustician), so my listening environment shouldn't be coloring my mids that much (I mostly have a few problems with lows at the moment; need to build some bass traps). I think the main component for stepping up my game is to invest in a pair of monitors I can trust more than the Events, though they have served me well enough as entry level monitors.

Of course, I hate to sound like so many other newbs and whine about not having the money for really nice gear (Genelec 1032A, here's looking at you), but I'm just an assistant, run sound for a church, and get gigs, so the money doesn't just flow around here. I'd really like to spend between $400 and $700 on a pair. I'd presume that the best value for that price range would be a pair of active nearfields, am I right? Any passive monitors for sure would have to take the price (and quality) of an amplifier into consideration as well. If the experienced folks here think that I'd be best served (considering the situation I've just described) looking at monitors over $700, then lay it on me so I can start pinching my pennies.

PS - I love the NS-10s at work. Deskspace constraints restrict me from buying any non-magnetically-shielded speakers unfortunately, at least among near-fields. Might have to invest in a larger desk or speaker stands if you guys think such a speaker is the way to go though.
 
Hi man.
Hi all.
Invest in the best monitors you can afford.
When you can trust what you hear when mixing/mastering its a great feeling.
I remeber having to listen on various speakers to see if i was tweaking correctly.
Since i got me new monitors, never once have i felt the need to listen to my tweaks on other speakers.






Great forum guys.
 
Jonny Mumra said:
Hi man.
Hi all.
Invest in the best monitors you can afford.
When you can trust what you hear when mixing/mastering its a great feeling.
I remeber having to listen on various speakers to see if i was tweaking correctly.
Since i got me new monitors, never once have i felt the need to listen to my tweaks on other speakers.

Great forum guys.

Mind if I ask what monitors you got? I'm about to invest in some myself and I was considering the Wharfedale's and the BX-8a's but I'm going to do a search here before I decide.
 
7string said:
Mind if I ask what monitors you got? I'm about to invest in some myself and I was considering the Wharfedale's and the BX-8a's but I'm going to do a search here before I decide.


Sure,
i have dynaudio acoustics BM15s
and Event precision 8 actives.

I love them both to death.
 
I find it's very interesting that most of us seem to have similar processes of discovery and fine tuning; We'll go from a mix environment that is (likely) the most neutral and accurate we have access to, but still have these trips to the 'car' of other speakers picked that are tweeky' in some way or another, to get this other reality check. It's another view, it works, I'm not saying it doesn't. What I'm getting to, is that these other references generally have these relatively wild frequency response humps (and in completely random spots form one 'set' to the next).
I'm thinking that part of their usefulness comes in the way they highlight different aspects of a mix. If something isn't tucked in place 'properly', out it pops. :D
Wayne
 
Jonny Mumra said:
Sure,
i have dynaudio acoustics BM15s
and Event precision 8 actives.

I love them both to death.

Not familiar with BM15s. I don't think I'd want to get Precision 8s for myself though. Event's precision series is marketed at the same crowd as the Tuned References I'm trying to leave behind, so I don't think it'd be much better for me. I also don't imagine using a speaker with an 8" woofer would have significant improvements in high-mids over one with a 5" woofer. The crossover point is right around the part of the sound I'm trying to bring out better, and I imagine the larger cone size will only really add extra frequency response on the lowest lows. I'm fine with 5" nearfields, as my home theatre system is a very adequate reference for the lowest lows. I don't mean to knock your gear at all. I'm just looking for something different, personally.

I've thought about maybe BX-5as or M1 Actives, but I have no way to really test such speakers out, and both of them are in the same price range as my Events. Doesn't necessarily mean they aren't better, but I've got more to spend, and as has been said, I should get the best I can! Unless...M1 Actives are the best I can get until Genelecs...but I don't believe it! Thanks for the responses so far and please keep 'em coming.

EDIT: Found some info on BM15s. They look like they're about at the other end of my budget spectrum. They're in the same class expense-wise as Genelecs! Surely there's got to be a step in-between!

EDIT: Did a little MORE research, this time on precision 8s. Looks like I got 'em mixed up with something else. Looking at the materials they are made from, it's DEFINATELY a step up from TR5s. Maybe this is one for me to look at after all? though I'd still prefer a 5" woofer I think, eventually coupled with a studio subwoofer.
 
After thinking about it for quite some time, I've come to the conclusion that, rare or not, passive or not, I just need to get me a pair of Yamaha NS-10Ms, the speakers I mentioned that we had in our studio. They are the speakers I am used to dealing with at work, and I know EXACTLY how a mix is supposed to sound in them. In short, they are everything I am looking for in a pair of nearfields. So obvious...

Anyone have a good amp to recommend? I've found a decent offer on a Hafler P1000, and it seems like it would match NS-10s pretty well.
 
As much as I may not care for NS10's, they really may be the best monitor for you given your situation. Regardless of all the nay sayers, if you know the NS-10's you can do good work on them. I myself am a big Dynaudio fan and love my BM15's. They are actually only like $1100 a pair if you go passive. I have been looking into adding a Bryston or Parasound amp pretty soon, and I may let my Crown D300 amp go up for sale (from my JBL 4311 "B" monitors). If you really want smaller shielded monitors, maybe you should look into the Dynaudio BM5a's. They are a little out of your price range, but may be worth a little saving;)
 
Yeah, it's true. They are speakers that you sort of have to train to mix well on. I looked into the Dynaudios and they look pretty sweet!

If I feel like upgrading my monitors again in the future, I might give them a look. But I'm pretty sure that my next monitor purchase after this will be Genelecs...and probably quite a few years from now.

Until then, I'm thinking NS-10s, and using my home theatre for bass reference. I might eventually get that new subwoofer that Yamaha has started offering to compliment the NS-10s.

Thanks for your input, everyone!
 
I just picked up a set of active M-Audio BX-8 monitors and so far I am very impressed. I can't imagine doing better for the price. I got these from Musician's Friend on clearance for 239.00 with free shipping. The only problem is that they are much larger than what I really needed. They take up a ton of desk space, but mounted properly I am sure they would be great.

They are LOUD.

I can't tell you how true they will be yet, I haven't started my kindergartenesque mixing and mastering with them, but I sure hope they are better than the Sennheiser headphones I was using to mix with before. I had no idea that monitors are as important as they apparently are and I had a lot of the same issues you mentioned with the frequencies being completely out of whack in my mixes.

One thing I have learned....


This quickly turns into a really expensive fucking hobby. I thought golf was bad!
 
Blak Jak Balla said:
BX8's I got these from Musician's Friend on clearance for 239.00 with free shipping.
This quickly turns into a really expensive fucking hobby. I thought golf was bad!

damn. thats the best deal on those i've heard.

its not so expensive once your broke from buying gear. :p
 
Blak Jak Balla said:
This quickly turns into a really expensive fucking hobby. I thought golf was bad!

You think THAT'S bad, I actually want Genelecs. Heh. Maybe in 10 years! Probably keep NS-10s for reference no matter what.

I tried BX5s. They were better in my opinion than any similarly priced active except maybe the Alesis M1. The main reason I didn't go for a larger one like BX8 is because I'm afraid an 8" woofer will color the low mids too much. I'd rather get a separate sub and crossover at 100 Hz to reference lows. At least, for nearfields.

I've looked through some old old articles, and it looks like there's some very heated argument about NS-10s!

Seems many people think they are too unpleasant to listen to, and that one can learn to mix on anything, so you might as well get something you like. Well, I can see where that line of thought is coming from. Nontheless, from what I've researched, NS-10s are THE best monitor for the "if you can get mixes to sound good here, they'll sound good ANYWHERE" method of mixing, which I highly subscribe to personally. It's true, they'll never sound great, but whenever I've done my best mixing something on the pair at work, I take them home, and the mixes sound FANTASTIC in my car on the way back. They sound FANTASTIC on my home theatre system. They sound FANTASTIC through headphones, cheap computer speakers, Sony boomboxes, and shelf systems. Everything I've mixed on the Events just sounds muddy by comparison.

I've gone ahead and bought them, by the way, along with an amp that looks like a good match. Got the NS10s for a steal off of Ebay at $200, and a Hafler P1500 amp for $220. Shipping for the two is $60, so hopefully, I've got a nearfield solution I can be satisfied with for under $500!

All this hoopla, and watch them come in, and me not like the sound (which would mean its the acoustics in my room I disagree with).
 
Justus Johnston said:
I'd rather get a separate sub and crossover at 100 Hz to reference lows. At least, for nearfields.

and that one can learn to mix on anything, so you might as well get something you like.

i'd recommend listening to the BlueSky's if your planning on the sub-woofer setup anyway. GC is starting to carry them so a store test will be easier. $500,$1000, $1600..range. Subs are included (and designed in upfront).

i think your comment on "mix on anything" is true,
its skills and knowing your speakers...no matter what flavor.

my current train of thought for myself, maybe that one of the worst things a HR gearhead can do is keep changing speakers and moving sht around in the room. it's confusing thinking the new monitors will "fix the mix"...and adds to alot of $$$$ possibly wasted.

like buying Golf clubs...you could spend alot of damn money on putters!!
"its the putter! thats why my golf game is shit!!"

get what you like...NS10's!!!
didn't you know Yellow is better than White cones for the mid-lower high freq. :p
 
Hey, I spent good money on my Cleveland putter and it did help my game:)
 
I have the Precision 8s and they are stellar. I completely agree with John Mumra, when the mix is done on these, translation is 95% done. I still check the mix on small speakers and will occasionally catch some vary narrow upper midrange anomalies but not often. In this price range I have not heard anything I would rather have.

If you have around $2000 then I would steer you toward some JBLs but in the $1200 price range the Event Precision 8s are a solid choice.

If you check out monitor dimensions you'll notice the ASP8s are deeper than normal and this results in a very large depth-of feild. They are also accurate l to r for precision panning. Notice too that reverb and delay are much clearer and audible on these boxes than some others out there.
 
i absolutely love my ns10's. i also have a pair of event 20/20's that i love. i use them both but the ns10's are what i really trust. its true, they dont sound great but it's also true that if you get a mix sounding good on them it will sound good most anywhere. i use an alesis ra 100 to power them, not that it really matters, im sure hafler will be fine. im not sure about any other event speakers but my 20/20's are great. if you're used to the ns 10's already then you've made the right choice by buying them. you know them, you're more than halfway there.
 
oh yeah, at $200 for the ns 10's you practically raped someone. i paid $550 for mine and i felt like i walked away a winner. i've seen them go for over $1000 more than once and there only getting more rare. almost every larger studio has a pair. there is a reason for that. watch any documentary that shows a famous band in a multi million dollar studio and keep your eyes peeled, in the background on top of the console there is always a pair.
 
Middleman said:
I have the Precision 8s and they are stellar. I completely agree with John Mumra, when the mix is done on these, translation is 95% done. I still check the mix on small speakers and will occasionally catch some vary narrow upper midrange anomalies but not often. In this price range I have not heard anything I would rather have.

If you have around $2000 then I would steer you toward some JBLs but in the $1200 price range the Event Precision 8s are a solid choice.

If you check out monitor dimensions you'll notice the ASP8s are deeper than normal and this results in a very large depth-of feild. They are also accurate l to r for precision panning. Notice too that reverb and delay are much clearer and audible on these boxes than some others out there.

Thank you. I'll keep that in mind for my next monitor purchase (too late for this one). Out of curiosity, how do you think the JBLs compare to Genelecs (let's say 1032A) in terms of accuracy? As far as large monitors go, I'm fairly sold on those.

oh yeah, at $200 for the ns 10's you practically raped someone. i paid $550 for mine and i felt like i walked away a winner. i've seen them go for over $1000 more than once and there only getting more rare. almost every larger studio has a pair. there is a reason for that. watch any documentary that shows a famous band in a multi million dollar studio and keep your eyes peeled, in the background on top of the console there is always a pair.
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Yeah, I was kind of shocked about the price too. I hope they're not damaged or something. The auction listing said they were pristine except that one of the woofers had been replaced at some point (and the replacement is still perfectly good). In the picture in the listing, you can see that the woofers look a little different from each other, but they are definately both that signature NS-10 woofer!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7362657751&rd=1&sspagename=STRK:MEWN:IT&rd=1

Those're the ones.
 
The JBLs are the most accurate I have heard. I am speaking of the LSR6328 monitors. That said, the Genelecs are used on a lot of rock albums. Depends on your style of mixing. If I was doing Bonnie Raitt or maybe Norah Jones then I would want the JBLs, if I was mixing metal, then I would probably opt for the Genelecs because they have that edge thing going.
 
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