Recommendations for a decent analog setup!!?

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Roker1

Roker1

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Hello all you analog experts:)
I now very little about analog gear and recording process, as I've used digital (PC) since I started "recording":) .....I'm planning on building a proper studio in the near future, and would like to have both, digital and analog. Now as far as digital is concearned I know what I want (need). But with the analog, I have no clue!!:D
What would be a decent analog setup for my future studio. I'm mostly orientated to Rock and maybe POP Rock style of music, but I guess it doesn't really matter, coz with a good setup you can record anything, right...now I've read about all the Neve, SSL, Studer, etc.etc... but obviously most of us can't afford that sort of gear...So...what would you recommend for a nice, half decent analog setup....thanks
BTW if you are aware of some $$$ figures on above mentioned consoles and tape machines, feel free to post them please...I could be wrong in my price estimating, and maybe I could even afford some of that gear...but I strongly doubt it :)
Thanks a lot guys....looking fwd to seeing some replies
Cheers
 
I've just gone to see who's online, and, amongst the others, Sennheiser was...so I bet he'll be one of the first ones to reply....:D
 
Yeah, but it's going to be a short reply. I have to get ready for work here in a second.

I would start out with one of the 1/2" or 1" (if you have the bucks)
tape machines and a four or eight buss 16 or 24 channel console.
The buss and channel count pretty much depends on how many sources you need to record at once. I get by on a four-buss just fine.

TASCAM is the most popular deck by far because of the number made and they are inexpensive compared to when they were new. Same with their consoles.

Gotta go. I'll elaborate a bit when I get to work.
 
Back to the matter at hand.

My setup cost around $600-$650. I can't remember what the total was with shipping. I bought the TASCAM 38-8 deck, two DBX DB-4 N/R units and a TASCAM M-30 mixer.

Everyone said how wonderful the M-30 was, but I could tell even before I got it that I would need another. THe M-30 sounds great but routing, at least for me ws a nightmare without a manual.

I now have a TASCAM M-1516 which I got for another $350. It's perfect for a one-man operation. Blows the doors off the Mackie 1604VLZ as far as nice sounding pre-'s go. Routing is flexible, though there aren't as many sends on it as the Mackie, but it is a dedicated recording console and not a hybrid design trying to do two things well at once. The only thing I would have really like to have had with this console is a meter bridge. One was never offered for this model.

The DBX units virtually eliminate any tape hiss. It comes as close to CD as I've ever heard for quietness.

Another good choice is the MSR series. Offered in eight and 16 track models, these are newer machines than the 38-8. Doesn't make them better, just newer. They are only a two-head design though and many people prefer the more professional three-head configuration. To me, they look cheap but they sound great.

With these set-ups you can still dump to your computer either in stereo as two channels or all eight tracks at once for editing or effects if you have the proper sound card to do it.

My set-up is STRICTLY analog. Except for uploading mixes to NWR.
My music doesn't get anywhere near a computer.

Maintenance. Get to know your machine inside and out. Lots of moving parts, they need regular cleaning and an alignment every now and then. Belts can fail, as can motors. Pinch rollers have to be replaced occasionally, lots of cleaning to be performed before, during, and after each and every session. I love it.

This is probably more than you wanted to know, but I'm sure some others will add to what I've said. Let me know if you need any specifics about anything.
 
I have Fostex E-16 w/remote and a older Panasonic Ramsa WR-T820b console. Works like a charm, but right now its all boxed during construction stuff. I would like a MSR series 16 or 24 track machine when I get a console with more aux/returns for stuff. Its disappointing to see a setup that costed nearly $12,000 new running on the net for less than $3000. But hey, somebody needs a deal. I still have a digital 8 track recorder, and some PC based stuff. Man Im excited to get this stuff up and running, studio construction down time is like no sex for me! (not that I know anything about that)

SoMm
 
Sennheiser my friend, i disagree on the Tascam vs Mackie. There are plaenty of boards on the market better than the Mackie but the 1516 isn't one of them. I used a 2524 which is up a notch from the 15 series and the VLZs have better preamps. Now I give the 2524 credit for having midi mute automation but I feel the overall build quality and preamps are better in the VLZs. Just my humble opinion my friend as I've had both.
 
Roker - I think first you need to identify your needs - is this a personal studio, are you going to record others, etc?

What was your digital rig - how many tracks, and how well did that work for you?

Where I'm going here is that, judging from recent e-bay prices, you can pick up a Tascam 1/2" format recorder, 8-tracks, and a decent mixing board for it, and be inside of $1000.... but will that meet your needs? There are 16 track and 24 track machines out there but the costs go up. Some digital based folks are very comfortable with lots of tracks, and may feel 8 tracks is very restricting. If its a studio for hire, many clients may feel they need (rightly or wrongly) more than 8 tracks, too.

just saying look before you leap - but come on in, the waters fine!

b-h
 
Track Rat said:
Sennheiser my friend, i disagree on the Tascam vs Mackie. There are plaenty of boards on the market better than the Mackie but the 1516 isn't one of them. I used a 2524 which is up a notch from the 15 series and the VLZs have better preamps. Now I give the 2524 credit for having midi mute automation but I feel the overall build quality and preamps are better in the VLZs. Just my humble opinion my friend as I've had both.
Click to expand...

I guess my ears just hear things differently. I really do like the pre-'s better in the TASCAM.
 
Here are a few thoughts on recorder options. I guess the starting point, at least in my mind, is track count. This really depends a lot on you and how you work. I could live with 8 tracks. I typically do use one of the tracks for timecode, and sync a sequencer or drum machine (or both). I often sync up a 238 to add some additional tracks, though these tend to be sort of fiddly little additions that I could live without, or bounce, or line up on a shared track, if I really had to.

8 tracks
At the cheaper end are 1/4" 8-tracks. There are a number of Fostex models. The cheapest would probably be the A8 or the Model 80. Those are the oldest (in that order) models, and the most limited. I believe they take only 7" reels. The standard A8 (unlike the A8-"LR") only records 4 tracks at once. These might be things you could live with, as they do save you money.

Up the scale a bit are the Tascam 38 and TSR8. These seem to me like a pretty reasonable compromise for a home recordist. There are a lot of them out there, they don't cost a lot, and they're reasonably sturdy. An older model is the 80-8. It's old enough that it would worry me, but opinions certainly differ. Tascam machines tend to be built considerably more sturdily the more-or-less equivalent Fostex machines, in my opinion.

Up the scale a bit more would be the Tascam 48, 58 and ATR60, as well as the Otari MX5050. From there, you start to get more rare and pricey. There are a number of 1" 8-tracks (Studer, Scully, Ampex) in existence. These would probably be machines that were used in a commercial recording studio quite a few years ago.

A somewhat different beast is the Tascam 388, which was a sort of non-"porta" portastudio that combined a 1/4" 8-track (7" reels) and a mixer.

16 tracks
The lower end of the scale would be the 1/2" 16-tracks made by Tascam (MSR-16) and Fostex (several models).

Up the scale would be the Tascam MS-16, which is a 1", and quite a bit more of a "professional" machine. Above that are a variety of less common, more "pro" machines.

Another interesting approach might be to get two TSR8s and sync them. They sync quite well, with a Midiizer or ATS500. The all-in cost for the two decks and synchronizer would -- I think, off the top of my head -- be less than an MS-16, though probably more than an MSR-16. This approach would get you combined 1" 16-track, though you could only record on 14 tracks. You give up one track on each machine to timecode. If you're striping timecode anyway (for Midi sync), you'd only use 15 tracks on a 16-track machine ... so you'd only be down one track from a single 16-track deck. An advantage is that you could sort of get 7-track "banks" of "virtual tracks" by syncing to more than one reel (or a separate piece of tape on the same reel). Also, if you only want to use 7 or 8 tracks for a particular song, you save on tape. On the other hand, two reels of 1/2" tape are a little more than half the cost of one reel of 1" tape.

24 tracks
Tascam made a 1" 24 track: the MSR24. And 2" 24-tracks were (and, to some extent, still are) the standard high-end professional studio format (Tascam made one of these: the ATR80). In my view, once you're talking about a 2" machine you're getting out of the home-recording province and into something else. For a hobbyist to get one of these would be a bit like getting a Maserati to commute to work. Some people may do it, but I don't know that it's a great idea.

More than 24 tracks
There is such a thing as a 2" 32-track, but I wouldn't spend a lot of time shopping for one. You can sync machines if you really need more tracks ... like if you're close-micing every member of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir or something. For only a few thousand dollars, you could sync two Tascam MSR24s for 46 tracks, or three for 69 tracks ... why not?
 
wow, thank you guys so much...
OK, Sennheiser:
Thanks so much, that was very "easy" to read and sort of understand your opinions on different pieces of gear, eventhough I must admit that I didn't know what some of the things were (DBX, NWR:confused: ), but I will, however, go and do a search on these things, and try to understand what they do, before I ask you any more questions...

Son of Mixerman, thanks for posting the list of your gear, and I hope it will be up and running soon and efficiently for you:)

Blues_hack, thanks man....my needs would probably be more than 8 analog tracks, as I intend to record other people in the future. I could probably settle for a 16 track machine for the start, andsee how I go from there

Sjjjohnston, thanks...I will pick those "names" out of your useful post and look 'em up on the net, and let you know what I think
(if I do understand anything:D )

Thanks all so much, and feel free torecommend more stuff...
Cheers
 
stop with the busses=track count thing!
on any console worthy of plugging an analog tape recorder into, it is a NON issue
If you are worried about sound quality, or percieve there to be a difference between analog and digital, you wont be using busses much at all anyhow

sorry, had to rant!
 
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but between #2 and #3, the M2600 is definitely a better mixer, and in better shape.

I like the 38, with added Dx-4D's, the TSR-8 and the 388. I think the MSR-16 would be an okay unit to have, but the MS-16 would really be the bomb, preferrably with the optional dbx units. It all depends on how 'upscale' you want to go.

I like the M30, for a small, simple board. The 300 series mixers are nice too, being the M308, M312, and M320. There's a "B" version on the 300 series too, which adds phantom power on all units, [and a few extra VU meters on the M320B].

The mixer and track format you choose really depends on your needs and recording aspirations, and there's no single 'patent' answer to this question, except one all encompassing underlying theme: STICK WITH TASCAM. [Sorry Fostex People]. :eek:
 
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QUOTE: sjjohnston:...

"once you're talking about a 2" machine you're getting out of the home-recording province and into something else.... Some people may do it, but I don't know that it's a great idea. "

===============

>>> 2"? It's a great idea, but an expensive idea!

- Dude, be realistic,... even the MS-16 1"/16-track is out of the realm of home recording, it's a serious professional deck. Just by virtue of the digital 'revolution' has the MS-16 come into reach of home recordists, with analog prices going lower every day.

There's TONS of analog gear being surplussed. I mean TONS. It's practically a buyer's market on analog, but the downside is it's a used-equipment-only market, with no new, current or future analog recording gear being designed or marketed. I think the recording manufacturers really 'dropped the ball' on analog. Hey, I'm thinking of the majors, like TEAC, AMPEX and SONY. I know there's the Mackie VLZ mixer out there still, and some others,... but where's the analog recorders? They're gone. The BR-20 I'm sure is out of production, and if you could get one new, it would be "use-til-gone" stock, and the 424mk3 I believe has been discontinued with the advent of the Pocketstudio5. I have no proof the 424mk3's been discontinued, but it's just my gut feeling. The big stacks of 424mk3's of a few years ago are gone and sold, and there are not lot's more stacks of 424mk3's to replace them. I believe the 424mk3's been discontinued, and present new stock is also on a "use-til-gone" basis. That's just my gut, telling me that.

Oh geez, sorry for the rant I got off into, but I hope you get my points.

I'll post'ya later.
 
Reel, thanks for your opinions...I'm encouraged by the fact that it's the "analog buyers' time" as you put it, but yeah...the fact that there's not many "new" pieces of equipment around, makes you think that the whole adventure of buying analog equipment is a bit risky....On the other hand I believe (and hope) that there's still a lot of good second hand units that can be had.....
And about the 16 track....I know it's not really just a cheap "homerec's piece of gear", but I don't think I would go for anything less than 16....
Thanks...hoping to get more replies on the topic...
Cheers
 
pipelineaudio said:
stop with the busses=track count thing!
on any console worthy of plugging an analog tape recorder into, it is a NON issue
Click to expand...

Heh heh... More busses mean more faders typically. How else do you expect me to compensate for my small...ahem...Budget:p

But to me the first thing I look for in a console is size. The second thing I look for is color. And after that I start looking at whether it comes with any lights. More the better. Just kidding. Id look at layout, Eq flexability, feel of the knobs and faders and the number of inputs. Then if it feels comfortable I look into sound(I know wierd)Ill actually audition a console for at least an hour if I can, go through it to make sure I can do something with it. I wish I could afford a nice API or a Neve, they feel nice and sound pretty good. I wonder if anyone has tried to integrate 8 Neve chnl strips with 8 API with 8 SSL, 8 tridents, like a row of sidecars to take advantage of the characterisitics of those strips..mmmmm.

Thats a cute little 24 trk machine, the first 16 trk 2" I worked with was 2 times as big, just Neil Youngs old machine, last time I saw it was in Seattle Wa at Efex Electronics..it was for sale.

Anyhow, those were the old days and I can't even remember how to wire my meter bridge now. Wheres the manuals?

We forgot to mention the Fostex G-24s 24 tracks machine, it goes for a little less than the Tascam MSR-24's. $5000 or so.

Nothing wrong with dreaming, you may get there someday. Lots of people b4 us have.

Peace,
SoMm
 
I wonder if anyone has tried to integrate 8 Neve chnl strips with 8 API with 8 SSL, 8 tridents, like a row of sidecars to take advantage of the characterisitics of those strips..mmmmm.
Click to expand...

That would be great if you could get them all to fit in the same chassis. The new "Slevapident Console". That just kind of rolls off the tongue doesn't it. ;)
 
we used to have a neve kelso and trident A-range stuff and telefunken summing modules sitting besides an E-series SSL. Also an 8 channel Calrec among other junks...the SSL handled facilities and mixing while the other stuff was used mostly for tracking. I learned early on that reocrding thru a " fat " sounding chain, then mixing thru an equally " fat " sounding chain was like trying to stuff Roseanne into Christina Applegate's pants. The SSL made it a LOT easier.

for some fun try and so a web search for " sneve " modules, they're around
 
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