Reaper Question

[bennychico11]

How would you know there is a faster way?

I've used Nuendo, Cubase, N-Track, Acid, Fruity Loops, Digital Performer and Logic before.
Of all of those I found I am the most comfortable with Pro Tools. I think it's true with all software program. Even though you think another program is faster, it may not necessarily be faster for me. Everyone learns things differently. If we didn't, we wouldn't have so many different products out on the market. Maybe what you think is slow, I find second nature. I use PT every single day and feel like I know it backwards and forwards, so shortcuts and menu items aren't hard for me to find. I've actually been told as a joke I should slow down because we bill hourly!


Anyway, I use what I use. You're not going to switch over to PT anymore than I see myself becoming a Reaper user. I just find it funny how much people here ridicule PT users and recommend alternative programs, when no PT user I've come across has ever done the same. Stop bitching about what someone else uses and just answer their questions if you can (which is not directed towards anyone specifically, btw. I typically tend to ignore the complaints now).

 

[Ford Van]

Okay, I have "used" all of those apps too. How many of them have you become proficient using?

 

[bennychico11]

of all of those I probably got to know Nuendo, N-Track and Logic the best.
However, I would never say I became proficient at all of them. Mainly because I was learning Pro Tools around the same time, and kept leaning towards it. I just prefered PT, than the others. I started to grasp it a lot quicker.

But I guess I'm weird, because supposedly PT has a "high learning curve"? Eh, I never saw it that way.

 

[Freddy]

Back to the original question.

I know that the ability to be a Rewire slave was only added very recently to Reaper (and full marks for that - most seem to only offer to be a host).

From the forum at reaper.fm it looks as if Justin (the author) isn't entirely happy with the implementation as yet.

Maybe post there? http://www.cockos.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=22

One thing I will say is that he is very responsive, and you may be able to give him some info to go on and improve it.

 

[Ford Van]

Back to the original question.

I know that the ability to be a Rewire slave was only added very recently to Reaper (and full marks for that - most seem to only offer to be a host).

From the forum at reaper.fm it looks as if Justin (the author) isn't entirely happy with the implementation as yet.

Maybe post there? http://www.cockos.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=22

One thing I will say is that he is very responsive, and you may be able to give him some info to go on and improve it.

That is the beauty of Reaper, if something needs to be done to it to make it better, Justin goes to work on it and is freakin' relentless at fixing stuff! Hell, the software is only about 1 year old now! Really, he started it about a year ago, and look at where it is now!

 

[pipelineaudio]

Actually, I have been using Reaper for the better part of a month now, and I find it more cumbersome than Pro Tools. Not a bad program, just not for me.


Also, since I do most of my work in commercial studios, it is a major pain to have to keep switching programs when I want to edit and rough mix at home. I'm perfectly happy with Pro Tools, not so much with Reaper.

I do my work in a commercial studio as well, but using reaper

I dont have to switch between apps

 

[pipelineaudio]

well, I believe pipelineaudio is the creator of the software, and he lurks around here. So maybe he can give us some insight as to why this is so. I'm sure Reaper rewires just fine with some other programs.

Im not the creator, just a "nudger" heh

I didnt even know what rewire was till reaper added it lol

I can get it to work with melodyne, not sure how to make reaper a rewire slave though

Ill ask

are you guys using rearoute to move the audio between pt and reaper or using the rewire audio?

 

[pipelineaudio]

PT is the same way, IMO. Every program has shortcuts that can be learned.
Do you have examples of things in PT that has slowed your editing down?

I have been in PT since the beta days, the main problem for me is that digi could give a shit what the end user needs

priority number one, since day one, from our guys was to have PT show the contents of events as you drag them. You still cant do this

This is so incredibly inefficient I have actually trained interns in an hour using vegas (now reaper) to smoke PT teachers in editing tasks.

There are a LOT of really cool things about PT, especially for working "rough" quickly...using PT's transient operations you can have a pretty good mix in minutes that the customer can take away

Its the time it takes getting from a decent customer take home mix, to a fully done mix where PT pisses me off...This was the main impetus for pushing reaper in the directions it has gone

 

[pipelineaudio]

I just find it funny how much people here ridicule PT users and recommend alternative programs, when no PT user I've come across has ever done the same. Stop bitching about what someone else uses and just answer their questions if you can (which is not directed towards anyone specifically, btw. I typically tend to ignore the complaints now).

Youve been lucky

Digi themselves have a school , the conservatory, right here in AZ as a marketing arm, and they work very hard to make sure that people who ARENT using their stuff have a hard time of it. Im no conspiracy theorist and some of the examples need to be felt rather than stated but there is a lot of crap to dig thru.

I have to spend a lot of time explaining why Im not using PT, to people who wouldnt know the difference between a toaster and PT. The schools turn out interns who actually tell the older staff what to use, and get real silly about it. It is whatever mix is advertising this month. The hillarity comes from what one graduating class one month apart from another will insist you use, its very 1984. You MUST use brand x, weve always used brand x and will always use brand x, too funny

These guys would have you believe that if your socks werent the right color you couldnt make an album

whatever color digi/mix/conservatory is pushing that month

I like to spend my time on skeptics forums and the migical woo pushing these twerps do is horrid. You have to spend as much time defending against them as working. They flood the local market with BS, take all the bands' money and then I end up having to save the bands' albums later for little or no money, just because they know Ill do it.

These guys would have you believe that before PT, noone ever made a record

Ive gone from analog tape, to digital tape, to hi bias analog tape, to cheap digital tape, to computers and always stayed up with the tech, and got myself into as much beta testing as I could. Yet I gotta deal with woo like magic summing systems and what not

The agressiveness of the conservatory kids around here is something you gotta experience to believe. In the end it doesnt land them jobs and we have a repeat cycle that goes like this:

Mom, those assholes at this new studio kicked me out...Im educated, what am I gonna do?

So mom buys a PTHD system, guy now has "a studio"

He charges next to nothing to get people in, sucks ass, makes next to nothing

Our rates go down TERRIBLY because we are competing with said bozo for the initial money sometimes

But it gets worse

Mom says "look weve given this 6 months and you are still losing money, its time to go to accounting school/dad's business/whatever"

So mom sells the gear CHEAP

Next bozo buys the gear for half what the first bozo bought it for so rates go even lower

Quality goes even lower

Now no bands trust any studios because the majority are these bozos screwing up. SO the rates stay down

Sucks ass really

Digi actually markets against their own customers. Im sure youve seen some of the really famous blowups and parting ways over this. First they tell the "big studio" they GOTTA have PT

Then they tell the little guy, big studio uses PT so you gotta have it

Then, like in the San Fran Chronicle case they tell the little guy "dont go to a big studio anymore its a waste of money, everything you need can be done with the control 24/digi hd3 setup"

With friends like that who needs enemies?

But I digress

REAPER was made by engineers for engineers, and respond to the end user in a daily fashion. I dont need to talk shit, Id like to be part of the solution

Digidesign wont listen to what we need, Sony/Sonic FOundry wouldnt listen to what we need, so now its in our hands, and surprise surprise, two companies that had stalled two VERY big requests for more than 6 years have all of a sudden implemented them...a little too late as their guys left for reaper by then

I dont wanna win the format wars, I just want to get my work done

 

[pipelineaudio]

It has occured to some of us Protools guys that Reaper can act as a rewire slave to PT...and in theory add to our limited track count (I suppose the same would be true for Cubase LE users as well).

The problem is that Reaper and Protools running together is quite a memory/resource drain so it doesn't work.

Does anyone have any idea how to reduce the amount of resources Reaper needs so these two could co-exist?

6

What kind of PT system are you using? If its LE then the lock digi has on the PC's resources are probably going to be too high to really deal with. We see the same thing with PTLE and Reason running on fast pc's

If its PTHD, check and see just which resources reaper is really chewing on. Its really an efficient app, but if theyre both fighting for the HD (native apps absolutely positively use WAY WAY WAY less resources accessing the HD than PT will, but can get into conflicts with PT's access none the less) there could be trouble

Memory shouldnt be any issue at all

Virtual memory might get a bit weird but I would check and see that reaper's priority isnt too high. Go to options\prefernces\audio\buffering and see what happens if you lower the thread priority to normal

Also, make sure you have one thread enabled per cpu that you have

Also, if you are running low latency, set the source material buffer size to 200ms instead of the default 600, this should free up quite a few cpu cycles

 

[bennychico11]

are you guys using rearoute to move the audio between pt and reaper or using the rewire audio?

the rewire audio. however, like we said above it just seems to bog down the system and eventually gives so many errors that you can't even press play.

I do my work in a commercial studio as well, but using reaper

I dont have to switch between apps

yes, it is possible to work on projects with two different systems, but there are also benefits to keeping everything the same all the way until you make the final CD bounce. Effects, automation, aux tracks, region separations, time code information, sync points, comments, window layout, session settings, etc.

I have been in PT since the beta days, the main problem for me is that digi could give a shit what the end user needs

priority number one, since day one, from our guys was to have PT show the contents of events as you drag them. You still cant do this

I agree there are things I wish Digi would add to their PT versions. And they have gotten a lot better with the latest versions that are out (I'm dying to upgrade hearing what's available with the new HD software for post production work). But I think they do listen to the customers, they just don't always head down the road we'd like them to after listening. The DUC and feedback form are great ways to get ahold of tech support or product development people. There's always people from Digi lurking around the DUC, so they're bound to hear what people want. Not to mention, many of the people working at Digi are former or current engineers themselves...and it's ludicrous to think they have no opinions on what their own company should employ.

As far as the "show the contents of events as you drag them"...I'm not familiar with that. Perhaps it's something we don't have or maybe I'm just not familiar with what you are calling it?? Could you explain what that is? I've got Reaper sitting on this computer so I can try it out to see what you mean.

Its the time it takes getting from a decent customer take home mix, to a fully done mix where PT pisses me off...This was the main impetus for pushing reaper in the directions it has gone

perhaps...but remember this is mixing, not editing. Editing is one thing, but almost every program is just as efficient as the next one when it actually comes down to mixing; fader adjustments, plugin assignments, automation and routing. Those are all the fundamental actions for doing a mix. Pretty much every program it just takes one click of the mouse to effect all these. I have yet to find a program that can move a fader faster, or make soloing easier.
Now, until I find a program with an "auto-mix" feature, where the computer mixes out the perfect song for you....I'm going to say all programs are just as efficient when it comes to actual mixing.

Youve been lucky

my original comment about that was about Pro Tools users on this board don't post comments ridiculing people for what they use. I can go through the posts and quote people left and right if need be, where they just post stupid shit saying "You need to stop using Pro Toolz/Pro Foolz," (we get it, changing the name is funny ) When the original question was where a certain feature was located or something! It just gets ridiculous around here. I am one of those Pro Tools "schooled" engineers, and I have never once recommended Pro Tools over any other program here, told someone they were retarded for using Reaper, Cubase or Nuendo, or changed the names to Ass Reaper, FreeBase, or Old-window (although that may be fun in some conversations )....and have espcially never posted in a thread about a program I don't even use or know much about and say "Ditch program X, buy Pro Tools."

I agree there is a lot of misconception of people starting out that Pro Tools is the only way to go, but that's just because advertising works and PT has just been around for a long time. But it's not the actual products the crappy conservatory grads are using...it's the conservatory grads themselves that are helping you lose business. Or even more, it's the fact that people do homerecording now instead that is killing the business. Bands say why should I pay the studio with Pro Tools or Reaper, when I can just do it here at home? But still...the crappy conservatory kid or the bands can have the best equipment under the son but still get a crappy end result. Just like any other business. That goes for doctors, lawyers, construction companies, plumbers, electricians, furniture manufacturer's, etc. They can all have the greatest tools in the world or even the inexpensive, most flexible equipment...and still get crappy work. Consumers/customers just have to learn to weed through that.

Virtual memory might get a bit weird but I would check and see that reaper's priority isnt too high. Go to options\prefernces\audio\buffering and see what happens if you lower the thread priority to normal

I'm using TDM...I believe 6 is on LE.
It's not really a memory issue...just a CPU one. Window's simple task manager says it hovers around only 30% usage when playing back. But PT's CPU meter is freaking out jumping anywhere from 15% to 80%. Reaper slaved stays at 6-10%.
It would make me think it's a Pro Tools issue...but I've never gotten this with anything else. And I'm assumign Reaper's percentage stays low because it's not doing much of the work when in slave mode. And it's only when playing back/recording. With both programs sitting idle it's fine.

Its really an efficient app, but if theyre both fighting for the HD (native apps absolutely positively use WAY WAY WAY less resources accessing the HD than PT will, but can get into conflicts with PT's access none the less) there could be trouble

this is a good point, although I'm running the audio of the two off of two different hard drives. And in fact PT isn't accessing any audio, just playing back.


thanks for your help on this thread, pipeline. I'll play around with Reaper some more to see if I can learn more about.