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Logicman991
New member
My mix is very quiet. What are some things I can do to make it louder?
suprstar
It aint ez being green
Push the faders up. Is your main mix peaking right at 0? If you are, then you can compress and limit, which clips the peaks, then you can push the faders up even more before it clips. You're basically increasing RMS and leaving the peaks where they are. The more you do it, the louder you can make it, but it's most often counter-productive to sound quality.. Too much and it will become another casualty of the 'loudness wars' - an otherwise good song squashed to death in production.. A really easy way to make it louder is by turning the volume knob.
Jeff_D
New member
push the faders up until you are just under peaking... Then compression and limiting.
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Logicman991
New member
Ok, thanks, but i have a problem with compression i don't know how to get around. If i use compression with RMS the peaks that comes very sudden aren't going to be compressed, even if i have the attack on 0.0ms.
Could i attach a second compressor to the track and set it at peak or would a limiter do the job better?
Could i attach a second compressor to the track and set it at peak or would a limiter do the job better?
Robo 5-0
New member
I'd make sure you are bringing the inputs mic and instrument signal to line level as soon as possible. If you don't get good levels early on you'll be fighting it all down the signal chain and probably adding noise as well.
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Chibi Nappa
New member
How loud is it now and why does it need to be louder?
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mixsit
Well-known member
Yes, a hard (brick wall') limiter is typically different than even a fast high ratio compressor with regards to very sharp transients. I would consider looking at them as two independent proposes.? Ah.. the was supposed to be purposes.
If the ranges is '0 attack time I would expect it should go there. In some cases the detection style can be swapped from 'RMS to 'Peak mode –(Timeworks' does that. One of my faves', very versatile compressor, RMS or Peak, hard or soft knee + a hard limiter.) 'RMS may indeed be what's preventing it from acting like the 0' attack it's set for.
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Logicman991
New member
I know people react like this when a newbie asks why their mix is "too quiet".
I know a low dynamic range can lower the quality of a song, and i know I -- as an amateur artist -- shouldn't try to replicate that loudness, but I'm really just curious how big record labels make their records so loud without getting a useless quality. I just want to learn it anyway, because i think it can be quite useful: I think if I practice to get my songs as loud as possible without lowering the quality too much, I'm eventually going to be a pro at using compression, limiting and such methods. I'm not saying I want to make songs that have the loudness of commercial releases, just wanna practice it.
Dogbreath
Im an ex-spurt
That's yesteryears advice.
It applies to reel to reel and maybe 16 bit in digital. In 24 bit and up there's no reason to track it that hot.
Track it at around -18 to -12 (peak) and your mixes will be punchier, clearer AND you can get it louder because you haven't already maxed it out the converters etc...
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Chibi Nappa
New member
Green Day on a two million dollar budget shouldn't try to replicate that loudness.
They can't. They don't. Play Dookie at an equivalent volume to 21st Century Breakdown or American Idiot. The new records sound much worse.
There is no use for it. Any song can be as loud as the Gods if the user turns his volume knob up. If a song isn't mastered loud enough to hear on iPod buds in a noisy environment... Nobody should be doing that anyway. It is a dangerous health hazard no matter how young and rockin' you are. The consumer needs to either listen in a sensible environment or drop a modest amount of cash on heavy enclosed noise-blocking headphones. Enabling some uninformed kid to blast his ears is just not right.
One has nothing to do with the other. If you want to learn how to use compressors musically on individual tracks, then practice using compressors musically on individual tracks.
If you want to practice something that you will never use on your songs, why not something much more fun? Juggling? Mountain biking?I'm not saying I want to make songs that have the loudness of commercial releases, just wanna practice it.
bouldersoundguy
Well-known member
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Logicman991
New member
i can see what you're trying to say, and you have many good points. But, i still think it can be useful. What if I some day were to work for a record company and got told to decrease the dynamic range of a song? Don't you think sound engineer students are taught this?
But other than that, you're right.
suprstar
It aint ez being green
i can see what you're trying to say, and you have many good points. But, i still think it can be useful. What if I some day were to work for a record company and got told to decrease the dynamic range of a song? Don't you think sound engineer students are taught this?
But other than that, you're right.
Hell no, nobody asks for 'dynamic range reduction'! They get asked to 'make it louder' so it sticks out. I'd be suprised if a record label exec even know what dynamic range is! It's like when you fall asleep during tv, and the commercials wake you up cuz they're so loud, and they're audibly distorted and clippy.. They dont care about sq, they care about grabbing your attention. Music has been getting louder and louder over they years. Now if you DONT squash the shit out of your music, it's quieter than everything else on the radio..
Massive Master
www.massivemastering.com
But when actually *on* the radio, the quieter recordings will be loudest...
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Chibi Nappa
New member
Yeah, broadcast limiters don't like square waves any more than we do.
More than that, I find that on a home stereo, the quieter songs will also be the loudest.
Loud songs don't "like" being turned up. They fight the amp and speakers every step of the way. They fight your ears every step of the way. So in practical use, they end up not being all that loud because the listener keeps it down (relatively speaking). Normal songs (let's not call them quiet songs) go nice and loud before either the listener or equipment reach the breaking point. So you play them loud because you can.
And that's the real kicker in all of this. The loud discs are actually quiet.
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mixsit
Well-known member
Yeah, that's a nice way of putting it.
Or 'Got'a make um' really small so's they fit up at the top.'
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borducks
New member
some practical things to consider
"the quieter songs will also be the loudest"
So very very very true.
Let's look at this not by RMS but by spectrum. Fuller sounding mixes tend to sound "louder" because they actually use more of it.
Also, make sure everything has a place in the mix. If parts are stepping on each other no flavor of compression is going to help. The hot spots in the spectrum will kick you limiter in the shins and you'll have a blotty sonic mess.
Make sure you're EQing for space. And as precisely as possible (if you lower an octave of low end to get rid of an overtone you've just thrown out some body and character that adds to "loudness". If it's not there, it can't be loud).
DO NOT MIX INTO THE LIMITER. Take off all dynamic processing at the start and build your mix using all of the massive headroom that 24 bits gives you. (not to mention 32 in a few cases. Yet I still know several guys who somehow manage to clip the sh*t out of 32 bits.) If your mix only sounds good loud, then *turn up your monitors*.
Only punchy, dynamic mixes are able to survive master comp/limit.
Try to use some of this and you'll quickly appreciate the difference between brick wall, ear-flogging loud and the slamming "loud" you get when all the tracks are creating their synergy and you let them breathe.
"the quieter songs will also be the loudest"
So very very very true.
Let's look at this not by RMS but by spectrum. Fuller sounding mixes tend to sound "louder" because they actually use more of it.
Also, make sure everything has a place in the mix. If parts are stepping on each other no flavor of compression is going to help. The hot spots in the spectrum will kick you limiter in the shins and you'll have a blotty sonic mess.
Make sure you're EQing for space. And as precisely as possible (if you lower an octave of low end to get rid of an overtone you've just thrown out some body and character that adds to "loudness". If it's not there, it can't be loud).
DO NOT MIX INTO THE LIMITER. Take off all dynamic processing at the start and build your mix using all of the massive headroom that 24 bits gives you. (not to mention 32 in a few cases. Yet I still know several guys who somehow manage to clip the sh*t out of 32 bits.) If your mix only sounds good loud, then *turn up your monitors*.
Only punchy, dynamic mixes are able to survive master comp/limit.
Try to use some of this and you'll quickly appreciate the difference between brick wall, ear-flogging loud and the slamming "loud" you get when all the tracks are creating their synergy and you let them breathe.
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michaelSHK
New member
Sorry to get off topic, but aren't they clipping the track, not the actual bus itself? I thought it was nearly impossible to overload a bus in the digital world. Or am I thinking of a separate concept?
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mixsit
Well-known member
So LogicDude, did you get your Peak and RMSs figured out?
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mixsit
Well-known member
Could be. Then there's the plugs themselves -that could be on tracks or the mains (apparently they vary as to how they handle it..)
Stay in the nominal zone, = no worries.
