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gospelsing
New member
Thanks for the advice .
regebro
Insane Genious!
Often when you record things you want to have a more mellow and softer sound than you really get in real life. The SM57 gives you that. Also, some preamps, especially preamps that are branded as being "vintage" and "tube" preamps do that too. Using both is usually overkill and it will sound dull... 
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gospelsing
New member
Thanks I just ordered a sm57 and I'll get in a couple of days. I'm looking forward to using it for acoustical instruments . Thanks again .
Outlaws
New member
I have a ATM41a (58 ripoff). I sounds good on my Martin. Nice and mellow.
I broke it last night guys.
I had the ball off and I felt like seeing what was inside...so I tried taking off the capsule. That is a no no. 
I broke it last night guys.
I had the ball off and I felt like seeing what was inside...so I tried taking off the capsule. That is a no no. 
cjacek
Analogue Enthusiast
gospelsing said:
Take a listen to Dave's (ARP) tunes at:
http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=1609&alid=-1
He uses an sm57 for everything. Listen particularly to his reel to reel efforts, like the 388, 38 etc ...
I was stunned to learn that it was done with an sm57. Great sound.
Daniel
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gospelsing
New member
He does A good job. Was all that recorded with the sm57 I'm talking drums and all ? No DI or anything . I DI my bass and say Elec-guitar .
cjacek
Analogue Enthusiast
gospelsing said:
I'm pretty sure that ARP used no outboard mic pre's, 'cept those on his vintage mixers and that he used sm57 on EVERYTHING! We'll have to get ARP's side of things to be 100% certain though.
Dave .. where are you ??
Daniel
A Reel Person
It's Too Funky in Here!!!
Yes, I use the SM57 pretty much for everything, including drums, vocals, guitars,...
etc.
On electric guitar and bass, I often DI plus mic the body of the guitar, mixed for a fullness & live snap. I usually like to place a mic about 6"-9" off the body of the DI guitar/bass, at an angle, DI-lined instrument mixed with the mic. It's a usual technique for me, but never say never. F/I, the latest bass track I did was DI only, so maybe I got lazy there, but there's no hard & fast rules, 'cept what sounds good.
The SM57 does what I need it to do, which is pretty much everything. It's pretty easy to get a good sound out of it, without too much fuss. I'd need more, if I'd consider doing more serious live-in-studio work, but 4 seems to be enough when I work alone.
I use the inputs of my mixer, whatever that may be, either the M30, the 388, or 4-track Portastudios, & their standard onboard preamps & EQ.
I need a simple, inexpensive mic, that sounds good, and is durable, that you can use on anything. For me, that's the SM57.
I find it easy to get the sound I want on an SM57, which is a a simple, realistic sound, especially with the high quality Tascam mixers I'm accustomed to using.
Sure, there's always T & E, & taking the time to get the right sound, no matter what mic you use. If someone told you the SM57 was not good on voice, organ, drums, or anything specific, I'd say "hogwash".
For all the analysis of mics, and the SM57, whether it's good on this, or that, I believe that it's all how you set it up, [placement], how you drive the preamp stage, and a little EQ that makes all the difference, with any mic.
People can go on a mic-quest, or use other mics if they want, but the SM57 is such a simple, inexpensive, durable, versatile, good sounding solution. I have several other mics, but I prefer the SM57's. The 57's probably the best mic I have, but admittedly, I'm no mic freak.
I'm into high value. I'd be more inclined to have 10 SM57's than a single $1000 mic. Outboard preamps? NOT! Not on my radar. YMMV.
etc.
On electric guitar and bass, I often DI plus mic the body of the guitar, mixed for a fullness & live snap. I usually like to place a mic about 6"-9" off the body of the DI guitar/bass, at an angle, DI-lined instrument mixed with the mic. It's a usual technique for me, but never say never. F/I, the latest bass track I did was DI only, so maybe I got lazy there, but there's no hard & fast rules, 'cept what sounds good.
The SM57 does what I need it to do, which is pretty much everything. It's pretty easy to get a good sound out of it, without too much fuss. I'd need more, if I'd consider doing more serious live-in-studio work, but 4 seems to be enough when I work alone.
I use the inputs of my mixer, whatever that may be, either the M30, the 388, or 4-track Portastudios, & their standard onboard preamps & EQ.
I need a simple, inexpensive mic, that sounds good, and is durable, that you can use on anything. For me, that's the SM57.
I find it easy to get the sound I want on an SM57, which is a a simple, realistic sound, especially with the high quality Tascam mixers I'm accustomed to using.
Sure, there's always T & E, & taking the time to get the right sound, no matter what mic you use. If someone told you the SM57 was not good on voice, organ, drums, or anything specific, I'd say "hogwash".
For all the analysis of mics, and the SM57, whether it's good on this, or that, I believe that it's all how you set it up, [placement], how you drive the preamp stage, and a little EQ that makes all the difference, with any mic.
People can go on a mic-quest, or use other mics if they want, but the SM57 is such a simple, inexpensive, durable, versatile, good sounding solution. I have several other mics, but I prefer the SM57's. The 57's probably the best mic I have, but admittedly, I'm no mic freak.
I'm into high value. I'd be more inclined to have 10 SM57's than a single $1000 mic. Outboard preamps? NOT! Not on my radar. YMMV.
cjacek
Analogue Enthusiast
Re: Yes, I use the SM57 pretty much for everything, including drums, vocals, guitars,...
Needless to say, I'm a huge fan of the sm57 as well. It's perfect for voice, I'd say. Judging from your instrumental tracks, it sounds perfect on anything!
Say, Dave, I know that gain setting and such is important BUT for someone in a rush to set up a piano (upright) to be recorded with the 57, what would you suggest as in distance, positioning etc ... Do I need a mic stand ? Walk me through please ..
Thanks and I look forward to more of your recordings 
Daniel
A Reel Person said:
Needless to say, I'm a huge fan of the sm57 as well. It's perfect for voice, I'd say. Judging from your instrumental tracks, it sounds perfect on anything!
Say, Dave, I know that gain setting and such is important BUT for someone in a rush to set up a piano (upright) to be recorded with the 57, what would you suggest as in distance, positioning etc ... Do I need a mic stand ? Walk me through please ..
Thanks and I look forward to more of your recordings
Daniel
A Reel Person
It's Too Funky in Here!!!
Thanx. AAMOF, I have a new piano number I've been working on since Sunday.
Well, you can mic a piano with a single SM57, or two mics is probably more of a standard. However, nothing's a hard & fast rule, other than what sounds best at the time, or sometimes what's most convenient.
On a serious piano session, & for best results, I would remove the piano's top-front wooden panel, to expose the string section and sound board. Then place one or two mics about 12" off the strings from the front, L & R, set up on either side of my shoulders, either pointed directly perpendicular to the strings, or angled slightly toward the center.
I believe this would be a "standard" setup of mic'ing an upright piano with 2 mics, although a single mic could be used in a center position.
However, sometimes you do just what's convenient. F/I, on my most recent piano track, just last Sunday, I used a single mic on the piano, pointed up into the gap between the front cover and keyboard, right into this 2" space, just comfortably to the right of my right hand, & pointed slightly upward from the right to the left toward the strings. It's an acceptable mic placement, but I'd have gotten better results to fine tune the EQ more, at the time. It's a decent track, though.
I'll scan and post a pic of what I'm talking about, "standard upright piano mic'ing".
Pic: "standard" mic setup for upright piano,... from "Musician's Guide to Home Recording", by Peter McIan & Larry Wichman. I could probably take a better picture.
See: It looks as I've described, except these mics are boomed in a bit toward the center, and angled out. It's a relatively minor difference from what I described, but you get the general idea.
Angle mics out from center a bit to isolate Hi/Lo a little on L/R mics, or angle mics in to get a more cohesive tone in both mics. Alternately, you could spread the mics a bit & angle both mics directly toward & perpendicular to strings. You'll get a subtle change in the mic'ing effect by small changes like this.
There's nothing set in stone, but there are some guidelines, and minor differences are done to taste. I've occasionally used straight mic stands placed on either side of the piano bench, angled a bit inward, but a boom stand aids in the real nitty-gritty of mic placement onto an upright piano.
Thanx for listening, & thanx for asking!
Well, you can mic a piano with a single SM57, or two mics is probably more of a standard. However, nothing's a hard & fast rule, other than what sounds best at the time, or sometimes what's most convenient.
On a serious piano session, & for best results, I would remove the piano's top-front wooden panel, to expose the string section and sound board. Then place one or two mics about 12" off the strings from the front, L & R, set up on either side of my shoulders, either pointed directly perpendicular to the strings, or angled slightly toward the center.
I believe this would be a "standard" setup of mic'ing an upright piano with 2 mics, although a single mic could be used in a center position.
However, sometimes you do just what's convenient. F/I, on my most recent piano track, just last Sunday, I used a single mic on the piano, pointed up into the gap between the front cover and keyboard, right into this 2" space, just comfortably to the right of my right hand, & pointed slightly upward from the right to the left toward the strings. It's an acceptable mic placement, but I'd have gotten better results to fine tune the EQ more, at the time. It's a decent track, though.
I'll scan and post a pic of what I'm talking about, "standard upright piano mic'ing".
Pic: "standard" mic setup for upright piano,... from "Musician's Guide to Home Recording", by Peter McIan & Larry Wichman. I could probably take a better picture.
See: It looks as I've described, except these mics are boomed in a bit toward the center, and angled out. It's a relatively minor difference from what I described, but you get the general idea.
Angle mics out from center a bit to isolate Hi/Lo a little on L/R mics, or angle mics in to get a more cohesive tone in both mics. Alternately, you could spread the mics a bit & angle both mics directly toward & perpendicular to strings. You'll get a subtle change in the mic'ing effect by small changes like this.
There's nothing set in stone, but there are some guidelines, and minor differences are done to taste. I've occasionally used straight mic stands placed on either side of the piano bench, angled a bit inward, but a boom stand aids in the real nitty-gritty of mic placement onto an upright piano.
Thanx for listening, & thanx for asking!
Attachments
cjacek
Analogue Enthusiast
Re: Thanx. AAMOF, I have a new piano number I've been working on since Sunday.
Wow! What a great & detailed explanation!! Thanks . But what is the significance of micing with 2 mics instead of just one ? The piano is a mono instrument. 
Daniel
A Reel Person said:
Thanx for listening, & thanx for asking!
Wow! What a great & detailed explanation!! Thanks
. But what is the significance of micing with 2 mics instead of just one ? The piano is a mono instrument. Daniel
Mark7
Well-known member
One mic captures the lower registers, the other the higher ones. And just because it's a mono instrument doesn't mean you have to treat it as such.
A Reel Person
It's Too Funky in Here!!!
Well, it's also a large instrument, with 88 keys.
Even in the center, there's a good 24" of spread between the most commonly used high notes and the most commonly used low notes,... [center third of the keyboard].
Sometimes two mics helps capture the piano's highs and lows better, just based on covering the physical distance better, and the physics of sound relative to mic placement. It is just more comprehensive as two mics used together, even though your end result may often be a panned-to-mono single recorded track.
That being said, it is perfectly feasible to mic a piano with a single mic, placed in the center. It's done all the time.
Even in the center, there's a good 24" of spread between the most commonly used high notes and the most commonly used low notes,... [center third of the keyboard].
Sometimes two mics helps capture the piano's highs and lows better, just based on covering the physical distance better, and the physics of sound relative to mic placement. It is just more comprehensive as two mics used together, even though your end result may often be a panned-to-mono single recorded track.
That being said, it is perfectly feasible to mic a piano with a single mic, placed in the center. It's done all the time.
A Reel Person
It's Too Funky in Here!!!
Uh, I didn't catch that!... "A piano is a mono instrument" is a bit of a misnomer!
I certainly don't look at it that way! The word "mono" doen't apply to piano, as an instrument.
I certainly don't look at it that way! The word "mono" doen't apply to piano, as an instrument.
cjacek
Analogue Enthusiast
Ok, Thanks!
Daniel
Daniel
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gospelsing
New member
I see alot of good brain picking here. What about a keyboard with mono or stereo ? I don't have a up right but I do have a Korg sp100 and it sounds very well . I've recorded with it but somebody else playing because I don't play piano . I know the sm57 wouldn't apply here unless you amp and then mic . By they way I've got a sm57 coming tomorrow .And when you say EQing are you talking about the EQ on the board or inline with the instrument ?
RICK FITZPATRICK
New member
Hey Dave, that piano sure looks mighty familiar
fitZ
ps(how you and the family doin? Tell your son the "old bucket of wine" says hello!)
fitZ
ps(how you and the family doin? Tell your son the "old bucket of wine" says hello!)
A Reel Person
It's Too Funky in Here!!!
Hey FITZ! Damned if that piano doesn't look just like mine,... but it's not!
I scanned that pic out of a book, but as I said, I could probably take a better pic. I noticed right away it looks almost identical to my piano.
Yeah, the wife & kids are fine! I know, my 9y/o has a real way with words, eh? Ha. [Just like his dad!]
Glad to see you got the truck & trailer UN-jacknifed from the DRIVEWAY! HA!
===========
gospelsing- Well, a synth/kybd is a different thing than a piano.
Yes, when I talk about EQ, I mean inline EQ onboard the mixer, used to tweak mic or line sound from input to tape. Yes, I print tracks with mics and instruments EQ'd. I believe some EQ is essential, but that EQ should be used in moderation. Any time I have the EQ gain knobs past about the 3-o'clock position, I'll reanalyze, and see if I can still get an acceptable sound with EQ backed off a bit.
================
HEY, check out this great link on mic'ing a piano, originally left by MICHAEL JONES on another thread: See:...
http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/pages/Piano.htm
Thanx-michael jones
I scanned that pic out of a book, but as I said, I could probably take a better pic. I noticed right away it looks almost identical to my piano.
Yeah, the wife & kids are fine! I know, my 9y/o has a real way with words, eh? Ha. [Just like his dad!]
Glad to see you got the truck & trailer UN-jacknifed from the DRIVEWAY!
HA!===========
gospelsing- Well, a synth/kybd is a different thing than a piano.
Yes, when I talk about EQ, I mean inline EQ onboard the mixer, used to tweak mic or line sound from input to tape. Yes, I print tracks with mics and instruments EQ'd. I believe some EQ is essential, but that EQ should be used in moderation. Any time I have the EQ gain knobs past about the 3-o'clock position, I'll reanalyze, and see if I can still get an acceptable sound with EQ backed off a bit.
================
HEY, check out this great link on mic'ing a piano, originally left by MICHAEL JONES on another thread: See:...
http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/pages/Piano.htm
Thanx-michael jones
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gospelsing
New member
I got ya , I just got my sm57 in today from musiciansfriend . They have them on sale $79.99, can't beat that price not new . I like it, it is different than the 58 or the peavy 22 . Better for sure on instrument micing . I can see that right away .
I know Keyboards are different than piano as far as that goes I use to tune them . But the one I have don't have a lot of bells . It does have a good piano sound in live music. Recording I've never tried a piano . I,d say it would be better.
I know Keyboards are different than piano as far as that goes I use to tune them . But the one I have don't have a lot of bells . It does have a good piano sound in live music. Recording I've never tried a piano . I,d say it would be better.
RICK FITZPATRICK
New member
Hey gospelsing, you did yourself a favor. Those ole 57's been around a long time. I played with guys in the 60's that were using them ONSTAGE and to do homerecording long before the 58's came out. They sounded great then and they sound great now. And remember this. Yea, theres a ton of mics out there that do good things for different things. And no one mic does everything PERFECT. But how much money you got?
This is HOMERECORDING.com. Not PSW. Theres nothing wrong with wanting to know what mic does this and that, but for someone that has only ONE mic, to do everything, its hard to beat the ole 57'. I have 3. And someone is going to lambast us old farts about what we say about it. I read standing jokes from pros all the time on Pro studio forums, about amatuers using the 57' for everything. So what. Whos fun is this anyway. So don't let any of the Pro studio guys run ya down for using it. Besides, it DOES make for great recordings. Another thing, I'd bet a $1k that NONE of them could pick out a 57 on a recording. Just my ,02
fitZ
This is HOMERECORDING.com. Not PSW. Theres nothing wrong with wanting to know what mic does this and that, but for someone that has only ONE mic, to do everything, its hard to beat the ole 57'. I have 3. And someone is going to lambast us old farts about what we say about it. I read standing jokes from pros all the time on Pro studio forums, about amatuers using the 57' for everything. So what. Whos fun is this anyway. So don't let any of the Pro studio guys run ya down for using it. Besides, it DOES make for great recordings. Another thing, I'd bet a $1k that NONE of them could pick out a 57 on a recording. Just my ,02
fitZ