Question for Drummers that Mix, and any other experts

[Alanfc]

Question for Drummers that Mix, and any other experts

I'm mixing one of our band's tunes where the kick-snare pattern leads with the snare, and the kick is a quick hit. Rather than a =boom-crack, boom-crack= where the kick is the foundation. The pattern is
(in 1/8 notes)

Snare on 1
Snare on 2
Kick on -and-
Snare on 3
Kick on -and-
Snare on 4
Kick on -and-

that is :
Crack,
Crack-boom
Crack-boom
Crack-boom
Crack,
etc...

Our drummer is very nimble and a little bit jazzy. We worship him. The Kick hits are not his usual force. So they are not so prominent in the mix with this pattern. Certainly audible, but nothing like the stuff we hear on the radio (probably triggered kicks?)

anyway, as a Drummer, are you going to understand that in some songs your kick is not going to shake the walls ? This is a pattern where the kick should be heard but not felt, I believe. Are there measures I can take to bring out the light hits in a pattern like this, besides compression or whatever else? Compression hasn't been helping this situation anyway. I don't know how to trigger and I wouldn't want to anyway.

Next time we record I'm gonna remember to have the engineer mic the beater too ...wish I had known this time.

Thanks for any ideas and hopefully some drummers perspectives

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

So much information... all of it the wrong information we need.

How about a sound sample and the equipment you used, and everything you've tried so far?

 

[Alanfc]

OK thanks, I'll try that -

 

[Farview]

How was the kick mic'ed? Did you have a hole in the front head? Why isn't compression working? Have you tried eq?

 

[Alanfc]

you guys seem a little irritated with me-

I understand.

I have come to a solution for this song. Part of my problem is the fancy pro EQ the engineer used before he gave us our files. We'd be nowhere without him but I can't live with the kick sound. I may be an ungrateful slob but I hear what I hear.
The kick had no attack to it, it was very hi-fidelity on its own, but was a round "puff" rather than a "thunk" with a point to it. It got lost immediately when the band was added. Even when I brought all non-percussion instruments way down. Its all personal taste.

Anyway the mic was a D-112 inside the open shell of the kick. I don't know what kind of pre was used. Next time we need to mic the beater too.
My solution may be unprofessional but now it sounds like I want it to. I'm in Cakewalk HomeStudio 2002 XL.
What I did was to clone the original kick track. On one copy put a bright EQ and big low-cut (-6 @ 176hz and +5 @6756k) and bright compression (atk 10.5, Rel 50, 3.5:1, -25 thresh, +3.5 makeup gain). Gave me a bright wet sound with lotsa life to it. I played alot with the attack trying to get it higher, but the difference in human feel between 17-20 and 10.5 wasn't noticeable, so I've kept it low for now since it controls the first peaks that quick powerful kick foot our drummer has. On the second copy, for the girth/point/impact, I cut again at 170 or so, and goosed up 4 @ 427hz with a narrow Q of 4.6. No Compression on this copy. Believe me I tried to get this whole package in one track, and I couldn't get it.
This combo really sounds like I want it to now. More like being heard but not felt too much. The kick beat is just too busy for the chest/gut kick drum feel. Now, I can control the bright copy for audibility of the kick and the Girth copy for harder impact. With the kick track I got, this is the only way I knew to fix it. I am a semi-experienced Novice at best.

when the complete song is done (2 more weeks to get the vocals) I'll come back and stick it on this thread..

thanks for the notes.

 

[chessrock]

Sounds like you got everything under control.

You pulled out the EQ (and comp) and went crazy with it untill you got what you wanted. Bravo.

That's how it's done a lot of the time. (even though it may be more ideal to try and get it right at the source and all that crap)