"Pure and Simple Recording"

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Justintyme2

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Hi!,...I'm brand new and somewhat confused... :confused: I have an acoustic guitar and a voice and would like to get them through two mics into my computer and then be able to play the sound back and perhaps record it or burn it to CD...Seems simple enough to me, but it seems that everything out there entails all kinds of channels and tracks and over-dubbing and adding drum rolls, etc. :( (I hope you can realize my quandry???)...I'm just a bozo on the bus :o with a git-fiddle and a little poetry...I'm interested in excellent sound :D , but simple sound...How do I best get "me and me git-fiddle" into the computer???
Many things are rolling around in my head...I've heard talk of mic pre-amps, a kazillion different sound cards and audio interfaces, and, quite frankly, it's all become a bit confusing...Can somebody please give me a nudge in the right direction...I would like what ever soundcard I use (M-audio, CardDeluxe, etc.) to be able to handle other music in my machine, CD's etc. also...I have a Shure57 mic and will pick up another...I could use help there also...Anybody willing to take a shot on the best setup for a man and his guitar???...I certainly hope so...Thanks, Jim
 
Hey Jim,

Let me see if I can help you out. First lets sum up what you don't need:
- Big software packages. Forget about Cubase, Logic, ProTools, all that stuff. Go with a cheap, if not free recording program. Don't worry too much about this.
- A gazillion inputs. Since you only need two inputs, you've got alot of options and you can still keep the budget low.

Now what you already have:
- SM57. Sorry to say, even though it's a great mic, you don't find much use for it in your setup. If you're recording nothing but acoustic guitar and vocals, the SM57 is about the least usefull mic.
- Instruments. Very important. A good instrument played by a decent player is much more than half the work.

Now what you still need:
- Microphones. Two of them. I would go for a large diaphragm condensor like the Studio Projects C4, or a more expensive large diaphragm condensor by brands like MXL, ADK or again, Studio Projects. Secondly, for the guitar, I would go for a small diaphragm condensor. The MXL 603s is very popular around here, as is the Oktava MK12, or the Studio Projects C4. Two of these will alow you to record you're guitar in stereo, but you will need more other gear for that aswell.
- Preamps. You will need 2 channels of preamplification. An M-audio DMP3 will give you great results (for around 150 dollars you get 2 channels). If your budget is bigger you could go for a more colored preamp or 2, like the EH 12AY7 Mic pre (around 200 a channel) or a Groovetubes Brick (a little more per channel).
- Soundcard. This one is easy: M-audio Delta 2496. All you need. 2 channels.

Then you will need bunch of cables:
2 XLR to XLR cables from the mics to the preamp.
2 1/4" TS jack (mono) to RCA cables from the preamp to the soundcard. (depends on the outputs of the preamp, but they will be either XLR, 1/4" jack or RCA).

Once the signal is in the computer, you can record with any software package that will let you record 2 channels at the time (preferable in 24 bit).

There's only one more thing you might want to think about: acoustics. The room you are in is most likely on going to sound so good on recordings. That's not something you can change after you've recorded either. You'll have to invest in something like Auralex (not cheap), or get your hands dirty (cheap) and build some acoustic panels yourself (check the studio building forum).

Hope that helps :)
 
"Wow!!!...That's a light at the end of the tunnel!"

Halion,
I can't begin to tell you how much I appreciate your help in this matter...My brain has been bludgeoned with doubt and insecurity concerning the equipment necessary to produce pure and simple vocal/guitar...Strangely enough, I had the M-Audio DMP3 in mind, so I'll take that as "fait accompli"...Hah!...I don't even know if that's a proper response...but, I'm flying here as we speak...You also mention the Audiophile 2496...I have only one question here...Will this card also handle the playing of CD's etc and my music collection I have on my computer...I had been thinking of the Delta66 or 44???...I also have an in on an Omni setup with a 66 included...Hope I'm not muddying the water too much...Lastly, on the Mics...The MXL 603s are well within range as is the Octava, but that C4 at 300 balloons is a Heartbreaker, as Zeppelin would say...Any ideas at a lesser price, at least for the time being???...and finally, on the software package, any ideas on Kristal or Quartz...or something simple, yet profound, that you might have in mind...
Once again, I can't thank you enough for your time and input...I'm beginning to see the light...Thanks, Jim
 
No problem mate, we all need a little help sometimes.

Yes, the M-Audio Delta 2496 (or many other recording soundcards for that matter) will also play any "normal" sound, be it using your cdrom player to play a cd in Windows Media Player, to play an MP3 in iTunes, or whatever. The only thing these recording cards have extra, is the fact that they come with good AD/DA convertors, and they have ASIO drivers, which is a seperate driver for recording software, alongside the normal windows drivers.

Explain that Omni setup a little bit more so I can see if it might be smart for you.

As for the mics, I don't think a C4 would be a good choice if the price difference is that big. It probably won't be worth it.

Check out this page:
http://scotthelmke.com/stereo-mic.html
There you'll find 2 samples. One is a recording of a guitar with one small diaphragm microphone. The second sample is the same guitar and same musical piece, played by the same player, but recorded with 2 of the same microphones in an XY configuration. As you can hear, there is alot more animation and live in the second recording (this is even more clear when listening through headphones). You could buy for instance, one Studio Projects C1, an MXL 603 and a DMP3, and start recording with that. Then later you can add another 603 and make stereo guitar recordings, without having to spend an arm on a stereo mic pair (you will however, need another preamp and a soundcard with more than 2 inputs, the Delta 44 comes to mind).

The Quartz audio engine seems a bit too simple, although it might work for you. It has a maximum of 2 inputs, and no VST plugin support (trust me, once you got a taste, you will want more options, including plugin support). However, you can run it on an old PC. The Kristal audio engine seems perfect for you. A little more than you'd need right now, but enough to tinker with without losing the way all too much. Plus, you get to use VST plugins.
 
Hey!, Halion...

I'm on the C1 like a hobbo on a ham sandwich...and for now I'll start with my SM57 as my guitar Mic...I've got to money-wise...and the DMP3 is a go...One question, Have you ever heard of the Presonus Blue Tube...seems to be getting some wonderful write-ups as a Pre-amp???...link:http://www.presonus.com/bluetube.html...and then there's the 2496 that I'll use, if you think I'd be better served than by a Delta 44 or 66...just to start off with...
The 2496 has a midi line and the 44 and 66 don't, and the Blue Tube doesn't either...What does all of this mean and how would it effect me being a man and his guitar???...We're almost there Halion, and I can't thank you enough!!!...Jim
Also, I've got that link to the Mics you mentioned saved and will possibly move on them when my ship comes in... :D
 
I'd forget about the BlueTube. It doesn't really compare to the DMP3. The tube does next to nothing. Stick with the DMP3.

Midi allows you to play virtual instruments, something you won't really need, so don't worry about it. It is an entirely different thing from audio.

About the soundcard, it's really up to you. If you think 2 channels is enough, than go for th 2496. If you think you might want more for something like stereo guitar in the future, go for a 44.

I'd really try to get a better mic than the SM57, you'll be shocked by the difference, but hey, we use what we can right? Goodluck mate!
 
Thanks!, Mate...

It's settled...The C1, DMP3, and I'll study the 2496 vs. the 44 or 66...I'll probably start with the 2496...As for the guitar Mic, I'll make it a first priority after I get up and running...and, Oh yeah, I'll download the Kristal Audio Engine to begin with that...It's kind of the first easy breathing I've done since I began this quest...I can't thank you enough, and I've made you a "Buddy" here, sozzen I can contact you if I run into the wall down the line...Hah!
One last thing, I just turned 61 on the Third of November...I was around when Dylan and Donovan broke in, and remember when Greenwich Village was the haunt of Guthrie, Cisco Houston, Huddie Leadbetter, etc...I notice from your profile that you are 20...That speaks volumes to the universality of Music, and the wonderful people involved in it...It's been a pleasure!...Jim
 
Hey Jim,

Thanks, I'm glad I could help. I study MusicTechnology (it's an audio engineering / music / sound production college in the Netherlands).
 
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