purchasing a condenser mic, need opinions.

[Mark7]

The AT4040 can be had new for under $300.

 

[Han]

I'm looking at an M150 right now.

Holy Christ on a sofa! Why not an original mint condition M50?

Oh waitaminute, a Telefunken Ela M 251 might be even better, more versatile perhaps. I know a mint original 251 for $ 23800.-

Send the money to me and I'll ship it to ya!

 

[Richard Monroe]

Well, by Han's statement, it's a project studio. When he does a project, he *really* does a project. And I think I'm still a ways away from the $50,000 point, but I have made some inroads. Just for jollies, I just added it up in round figures. When the current upgrade is complete (about 3 weeks) it will look something like this:
rack-$5200, including the racks
stands, cables pop filters, shock mounts-$600
recorders/DAW's, computer, silence cases-$6,600
room conditioning materials-$500
miscellaneous furniture-$250
mics-$7,500
guitars-$5,650
lava lamp- $40

Grand total- $26,340

And I couldn't even touch a rig like Han's. I am not yet even in the C7sus league, whose mic cabinet causes me to drool a bit. (I want your cactus) Hell, all that, and I don't even have a control room! Eventually, I'll build or remodel an actual building, which in the Boston area, would cost a half a million dollars. Guess what? I'll be moving. In Mississippi, I could probably do it for under $100,000.

Well, thats just focused philosophy. The 26 grand above was spent for 8 simultaneous recording channels. There isn't a Neumann in the house. My most expensive tube mic is an NTK. No custom shop guitars, only 3 mics over $500 each, only one preamp over $800. My point here is that you can spend a hell of a lot of money doing this even with very few pieces of really top level gear.-Richie

 

[Mark7]

Sidebar.

Say, Han, how do the C1000 and C3000 sound on analogue? As opposed to digital.

 

[Han]

>>Say, Han, how do the C1000 and C3000 sound on analogue? As opposed to digital.<<

The C1000 and C3000 can sound decent on analog gear, but I have sold them because there are better mics that cost less when new than a C1000 and C3000 will fetch on Ebay.

You can hear the C1000 on female vocals on my website in the Gothic example. It was recorded with a Seck 1882 board to a Tascam MSR24S.

The C3000's were only used for spot mic on hi hat and ride cymbal for a couple of years. I use SP B1's now for that task and that's an improvement.

Opposed to digital? I do have Nuendo, Cubase SX, Logic Audio, Samplitude, Sonar and Cool Edit Pro, but I never use it for recording, only to fix some problems every now and then. Two inch analog sounds better IMNSHO.

 

[Han]

Well, by Han's statement, it's a project studio. When he does a project, he *really* does a project. And I think I'm still a ways away from the $50,000 point, but I have made some inroads. Just for jollies, I just added it up in round figures. When the current upgrade is complete (about 3 weeks) it will look something like this:
rack-$5200, including the racks
stands, cables pop filters, shock mounts-$600
recorders/DAW's, computer, silence cases-$6,600
room conditioning materials-$500
miscellaneous furniture-$250
mics-$7,500
guitars-$5,650
lava lamp- $40

Grand total- $26,340

And I couldn't even touch a rig like Han's. I am not yet even in the C7sus league, whose mic cabinet causes me to drool a bit. (I want your cactus) Hell, all that, and I don't even have a control room! Eventually, I'll build or remodel an actual building, which in the Boston area, would cost a half a million dollars. Guess what? I'll be moving. In Mississippi, I could probably do it for under $100,000.

Well, thats just focused philosophy. The 26 grand above was spent for 8 simultaneous recording channels. There isn't a Neumann in the house. My most expensive tube mic is an NTK. No custom shop guitars, only 3 mics over $500 each, only one preamp over $800. My point here is that you can spend a hell of a lot of money doing this even with very few pieces of really top level gear.-Richie

Richard, back in 1992 I was working my ass off and I only had a Seck 1882 board and an old Fostex B16 with a worn head, track 1 and 16 didn't work very well. I had a couple of MD421's, one MD441 and a number or cheap dynamics. I recorded a ton of metal bands with that rig and one of the albums is a classic here. ("Always", by The Gathering). Those were the days!

It got busier and I bought a new MSR24S. The studio was almost fully booked and I made quite some money, so I bought and bought and.........

Today I can record 50 tracks simultaniously (which rarely is neccesary) and all the gear is paid for and so is the building. That is a real privilege because studio's have a hard time these days, there are big acoustic treated rooms that are used as a storehouse. Big studio's like Air Lindhurst are for sale, Polar Studio (Abba) is closed. Look at this thread: http://www.3daudioinc.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=14&t=001616

The times they are a-changing, I don't have to work very hard anymore, I don't have to pay any rent and you won't hear me complain. In the end of the week a band is coming with drums, guitars, bass, keyboards, three horns and two female vocalists. We're gonna record that all at once, a couple of years ago this band recorded 19 songs in 3 (three) hours at my place and it was fun! They're gonna record for a full day now.

Oh, and the gear? I didn't buy the DDA board new, it was some $27.500. The Otari came from a small private studio and I payed some $12k. But all the gear must have cost some $500K when new, including the backline, grand, Hammond and Rhodes.

I love music!

 

[Mark7]

No, no. "As opposed to" is a figure of speech. It basically means "in comparison with". It's not saying you're opposed to digital per se.

I remember listening to the Gothic sample and thinking the C1000 didn't sound to bad in that particular application.

But I'd still take a 603S, or an MK012, or a C4 over it anyday

 

[Han]

Mark, although the C1000 is bashed all over the forums, it isn't such a bad microphone actually. It only is much too expensive for it's 'quality'.

I did make quite some decent recordings with the C1000 on percussion, woodwinds, distorted guitars and bass amps.

These days there are many mics for less than $100 that will outperform the C1000.

 

[MrKevcool]

wow

thanks for all the insightful opinions, all of you have greatly helped narrow my selection. one thing i'm still not to sure on is whether i would get better quality sound with buying a pre amp like the dmp-3, as some of you have suggested, and buy a cheaper mic, or if i would be better off just spending all the money on a really good 300$ mic. since i've just really started getting into recording about a half a year ago i don't know all that much about the equipment that's popular, so maybe i should know what a pre-amp does other then boost the signal of the item one's recording? Am i making myself clear?

 

[noisedude]

If I were you, since you're a beginner, I'd get a Studio Projects B1. It's almost universally liked and apparently very versatile. You can't go wrong with it for $100 or whatever it is, and once you have it you have a reference point for more expensive stuff. Get it, get started, and when you want a second mic for whatever reason you'll have one that you know is decent to compare it against. If you decide you don't like it (Han loves his) then hey, it's not a lot of money gone and there's plenty of people on here who'd take it off you for $50.

The mixer's fine, just get a mic and get to know your stuff. Then your upgrade path will become clearer as you find the limitations of your gear.

 

[MrKevcool]

in looking back at some of the suggestions, and then looking them up on ebay, i've found a AT4040 for $229. this seems like a steal since it's brand new in the box with the mount and everything. i also read a review of this mic and it said that it was a really good all around mic especially as some one's first condenser mic, and they gave it a 4.5 out of a 5. i think i might buy this one. can anyone find a better deal/mic?

 

[DJL]

MrKevcool.... spend ALL the money on a mic.

 

[H2oskiphil]

in looking back at some of the suggestions, and then looking them up on ebay, i've found a AT4040 for $229. this seems like a steal since it's brand new in the box with the mount and everything. i also read a review of this mic and it said that it was a really good all around mic especially as some one's first condenser mic, and they gave it a 4.5 out of a 5. i think i might buy this one. can anyone find a better deal/mic?

If you're not in a huge hurry, you can score a 4040 for less. I've seen them go for $199 or less.

If the one you're looking at for $229 is the one with free shipping, though, that's not a bad deal.

The 4040 is very nice. It's not outstanding at anything, but it's very very good on a lot of things. It's certainly not a one trick pony mic, and if it's going to be the first one in your locker, it's a great choice.

 

[c7sus]

Hey Richie....... I'm not in any league or anything.

I'm just a knucklehead that saw what I thought looked like a good deal and went for it. Having more credit than good sense can be a bad thing.

I gotta get better converters than a Darla20 before I can even apply to get in a league!

 

[H2oskiphil]

MrKevcool.... spend ALL the money on a mic.

If MrKevcool is going to be infected with GAS, then I'd agree with this statement.

OTOH, if he can somehow avoid the GAS syndrome (probably a fat chance, but you never know-there are those that HAVE that type of willpower. I'm certainly not one of them, but the rumor is that they exist...), a decent mic and a step-up preamp might actually give him better results, all other things being equal.

Long run, if you're planning on continuing to update your signal chain and improve your quality, DJL is completely correct. If this is a one-time, "never going to buy another piece of gear again" purchase, then you may be better served with the mic/preamp combo.

GAS=Gear Acquisition Syndrome. A painful, progressive disease that forces the infected individual to constantly attempt to upgrade his/her signal chain. Rarely fatal, but has been known to destroy marriages and deplete bank accounts. No known cure.

 

[EleKtriKaz]

I know some people are telling you to wait and save up a little more, and I would tend to agree with those people. When I wanted to get into recording I came and camped out on this board for hours, took some notes, researched lots of gear, decided I wanted a Rode NTK and an Aardvark Q10 and continued to read and read and read until I could afford what I knew would be decent gear.

I understand if you're in a hurry to get going, but a couple more weeks or however long it takes you to save $100-$200 could make a big difference in the long run. Just something to think about.

 

[noisedude]

Yeah, there's loads people on here with bad GAS (!)

If you can get that AT for $200, get yourself a DMP3 too and get started. Seriously. If you're not happy with that AT you aren't going to be happy with something just a little more expensive either - you're going to be stepping up into a new price league. So you might as well get on with it for now!!

 

[DJL]

If MrKevcool is going to be infected with GAS, then I'd agree with this statement.

OTOH, if he can somehow avoid the GAS syndrome (probably a fat chance, but you never know-there are those that HAVE that type of willpower. I'm certainly not one of them, but the rumor is that they exist...), a decent mic and a step-up preamp might actually give him better results, all other things being equal.

Long run, if you're planning on continuing to update your signal chain and improve your quality, DJL is completely correct. If this is a one-time, "never going to buy another piece of gear again" purchase, then you may be better served with the mic/preamp combo.

GAS=Gear Acquisition Syndrome. A painful, progressive disease that forces the infected individual to constantly attempt to upgrade his/her signal chain. Rarely fatal, but has been known to destroy marriages and deplete bank accounts. No known cure.

Wow, your full of gas.

 

[DJL]

MrKevcool, get the best mic you can... spend all the money on the mic, don't "cut conners".

 

[H2oskiphil]

MrKevcool, get the best mic you can... spend all the money on the mic, don't "cut conners".

DJL-If he can get a 4040 and a DMP3 for $300, which mic would you recommend for $300 that would sound appreciably better with the preamps on his Yamaha mixer?

Edit-not meant in a challenging manner-I'd honestly like to know the answer to this...I'm not sure there's many mics better than the 4040 for $300, let alone one that would sound better than the 4040/DMP combo using the Yamaha pres...