publishing and writer royalties

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jimistone

jimistone

long standing member
I may have a record deal that goes something like this:

one record deal
$10,000 advance/gift (if the record flops im not liable to pay the 10 grand back)
my contact to the record company gets 6% of the advance and royalties IF the album sell enough to warrant royalties
the record company gets ALL the publishing and 50% of the writers royalties

my contacts 6% will cover mixing and mastering the album...i will cut the basic tracks in my studio

the record company is mainly interested in the publishing and i won't be expected to tour and try to promote the album (i can if i want to but they basically are interested in the tunes and publishing like i said.

the album will be marketed thru amozon.com and all tower records outlets worldwide.

is this an OK deal for an old fart that would be doing damn good to sell 1000 CD's on his own?


if a big name recording act covered one of my songs what would 50% of the writers royalties amount to on a hit album?

with a one album deal i would be in a better position to negotiate a more generous deal if the album does well and will have the advance free and clears if it flops i guess...so i think im gonna go for it

any feedback would be appreciated
 
jimistone said:
IF the album sell enough to warrant royalties
the record company gets ALL the publishing and 50% of the writers royalties
Click to expand...


Ummmmm? All of the publishing and 50% of the writers royalties? That is huge...

They are obviously not serious about the mechanical royalties if you are recording it in your own studio. Anyway I don't really know much about the legal end of things but I think you could probably make more money by recording and promoting the album yourself.. This just seems a little fuzzy.. I could be wrong like so many times before...


if a big name recording act covered one of my songs what would 50% of the writers royalties amount to on a hit album?

You would definately be getting screwed if this happened...


with a one album deal i would be in a better position to negotiate a more generous deal if the album does well and will have the advance free and clears if it flops i guess...so i think im gonna go for it

That is if they do any promotion at all.


What record company is this?


Well if you decide to go for it, good luck..
 
There is a book called "What they won't tell you about the Music Industry"
Have you heard of this book? Before you sign *anything* rush right out & read this book.
(the take home message of this book is that the more you can do for yourself, the better)

One of the big things this guy advises is that you get an entertainment industry lawyer - right from the start.

Whatever you do, don't sign anything without doing a lot of *calculations* Recording contracts are (somewhat intentionally) confusing - just be real careful
and if it sounds too good to be true
it probably is
 
Performance royalties is where the writer makes the bulk of his / her money. You are going to sign away half of that. What if you end up with three different songs, by different artists go to, lets say top 25. You have signed away a substantial chunk of money. That $10,000 will then seem like chump change.


just my .02,
bd
 
I wouldn't sign away 100% of anything. you said yourself the company is mainly focused on publishing and you'll get $0
 
Id do it in a second.....

if you do this by yourself, and keep 100% of the publishing and writing, you know how long it would take to NET $10,000......

"with a one album deal i would be in a better position to negotiate a more generous deal if the album does well and will have the advance free and clears if it flops i guess...so i think im gonna go for it" .....exactly....if this hits, you will be able to negotiate deals and youll still get a good chunk of change....50% of writers royalties on 1 million copies is $37,750 for each song.......

yes you could probably publish it yourself, but do you have the connections to get it going?...do you have the marketing skillz?.....

try to get in touch with hard2hear.....he may be able to give a tad of friendly advice on where you should negotiate, if any......
 
Jimi.... you MUST get an entertainment lawyer to look it over, no IFs, ANDs, or BUTs.

An entertainment contract is FULL of gotchas that look innocuous.

Seriously - if the contract's worth money to you, than it's worth investing $300-$400 for a lawyer's time to look it over.........
 
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Ditto what Bear said. We just turned down a single song contract that gave the producer EVERYTHING and us nothing. (And this was a bigtime producer!) Get a lawyer. Best money we ever spent!

Bob
 
I can't disclose the name of the record company till i sign the paperwork...they didn't tell me this...but im just being cautious.

the record company is in the UK

I tend to agree with gidge. There is a chance that a mainstream act on a major US label could cover one of my songs and like most of y'all said i would get short changed on the money end because the record company owns all the publishing and half the writers royalties.

On the other hand, Its very doubtfull that a major recording artist would ever hear any of my tunes unless a major publisher was pitching them
(even then it would require a slick demo and alot of leg work that would require me to SPEND money insted of getting $10,000 for my effort)....

my mamma always told me that a bird in the hand is worth more than 2 in the bush.

the advance is probably all i will ever see out of the deal...i know this. the deal is not really negotiable...its a "take it or leave it" type of thing.

i am basically selling my songs to the record company outright...i understand this. as advised, I will get an attorney to review the paperwork before i sign.

other things i am considering...a recording contract and a new album (even if the deal is not a good one)...opens doors to higher end gigs and festivals that unsigned acts don't get access to.

I will get some airplay that i wouldn't be able to get without a recod deal.

and last but not least, i will have a slick product released by a record label and i will be listed as engineer and producer....impressive when a potential client comes to my studio and says "i want to hear something you've recorded"

things like that would also be extra money that i could earn from the project

thanks for your input guys!
 
The normal split on a song goes like this: if you give the publisher the song, everything gets split 50-50--the mechanicals, the performance money, etc. The publisher owns that song for as long as the contract says--usually forever! You and said publisher split profitsd in half. If they are saying they want 50% of the WRITERS SHARE, that means they want 75% of any income generated by the songs. Thats a rape job unless you write them twelve shit songs on purpose and take the 10 grand and laugh to the bank. Of course, thats not going to help you in the long run.

I'd definitely see a music business lawyer before you sign, but 50 50 is the norm for new artists with publishers. $10, 000 up front is some good faith money too.

In a way, you are getting screwed because you are giving 50% of your songs away. Ah--but if you don't use a publisher, what are your chances of getting anything to happen. 100% of nothing and all...

If I was offered a deal to write an album of songs for ten g's and I had to do a 50 50 split on the publishing, I would do it in a heartbeat with one catch. If the songs failed to make x amount of money after a certain period of time, I'd want the rights to revert back to me. Fat chance probably, but worth a try.
 
This deal sounds fishy. If you are trying to build a career as a songwriter, I would strongly consider running away from this deal.

You are basically selling 50% of your share of 13 songs for $10,000. If the songs are any good, and the publisher is going to actively shop the songs, you could make more than that from one song on one record.

If one of your songs was included on a hit album (let's say an album that sells 1 million copies), the writer's share right now would be 4 cents per copy. That's $40,000. Now, the IRS will take about half, but that's life. If you sign this deal, you are giving the publishers $20,000 of YOUR share. Remember, they's already be getting 4 cents for each copy as the publisher's share (mechanical royalties are 8 cents per copy right now).

If the songs are any good, then another publisher would be interested.

This sounds like a bizarre hybrid recording/publishing deal. Publishers do not usually produce albums. A publisher would sign individual songs to individual publishing deals, or would hire you as a staff writer. I've never heard of a publisher getting (or wanting) the rights to an entire album's worth of material.

If you are thinking of going forward with this, get yourself an entertsinment attorney (NOT your uncle Bob who practices law in Mississippi -- Get an real entertainment lawyer in new York, LA or Nashville).

Good luck.
 
this is a record company that also gets the publishing...not a stand alone publishing company. they are going to sell my album

are the songs any good? I guess they are good enough to get offered an advance and warrant interest in a 1 album deal. so im signing away the songs, i can write an albums worth of material again....no big deal. (actually i have a song that i firmly believe could be a #1 that im not including on this album)


there are some good attorneys here in mississippi mike moore comes to mind....the started the tobbacco lawsuit craze.

its not like my band is the beatles or anything...contemplating whether or not to do apple records

the downside to the deal are the "ifs". "if" a big recording artist put one of my songs on a million selling album. "if" my album, sells 1000's of copies.

if i have an "if" in one hand and 10 grand in the other i will choose the 10 grand everytime. the biggest "if" im looking at right now is "if" i swing the deal and the record company makes alot of money off the project...one way or the other...I will sign another contract "if" they give me a better deal.

only then will i have any bagining power with them or any other record company.

I gave up on the dream of being a rock star or writing a #1 song years ago. now its a fun hobby and im not really expecting to make big money going in to this thing, so, any money (especially $10,000) is a very pleseat surprize.

cause their ain't exactly a bidding war between major record labels going on here ya know
 
"If one of your songs was included on a hit album (let's say an album that sells 1 million copies), the writer's share right now would be 4 cents per copy. That's $40,000. Now, the IRS will take about half, but that's life"



if i make $30,000 (the $20,000 plus the advance)...i might consider establishing a career as a songwriter. one of my songs on a million selling album would help.

this is all pipe dreams really. the advance is likely all i will see from the project.

honestly, if anyone is interested i will give you the same deal...you pay me $10,000 for an albums worth of music and i will give you all the publishing and 50% of the writers royalties.

hell, i'll sell you this album for $11,000 and tell the record company that i have a better deal.
 
Let's think real basic math....

He's not currently making a living selling his stuff (I'm assuming)

so currently 50% of nothing is nothing...

... if he takes the deal and it flops... he loses... nothing

... if he takes the deal and 1, 2, 3 or even ALL his songs go platnum... he makes 50% of SOMETHING...

... sure, maybe he gets raped by this contract, but if his stuff is good enough to hit the top 25 or even top 10, they'll come back to him for more... THEN it's his turn to rape THEM!

So ... yeah... in my opinion, I'd take the deal. All the math points to this:

His investment: time

thier investment: $10,000

If he loses, he still wins cause he's gained valuable experience.

If he wins, he wins... either way he's got nothing to actually lose.

You know what they say "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush."

:)

- Tanlith -
 
Of course, your individual situation will be the final arbiter.

I did not mean to infer that there are no good lawyers in Mississippi. But I would be surprised to find very many lawyers who specialize in entertainment law.
 
"I did not mean to infer that there are no good lawyers in Mississippi. But I would be surprised to find very many lawyers who specialize in entertainment law."

most of the lawyers that are here specialize in ambulance chasing. Mississippi is the state that has no cap on how much jury's can award on punitive damages (pain and suffering are worth millions in our courts...hell with a record deal, im gonna fall on a wet floor in Walmart!). Lawyers from every state in the union are coming here in droves. I saw a TV advertisment with Johnny Cochran telling folks to call him not too long ago....its crazy.


how do you get a lawyer out of a tree in Ms?....cut the rope!

all I need a lawyer to do is make sure im gonna get my $10,000 and 50% of the writers royalties.
 
how do you get a lawyer out of a tree in Ms?....cut the rope!

all I need a lawyer to do is make sure im gonna get my $10,000 and 50% of the writers royalties. [/B][/QUOTE]



ROFL!!!!!! That's hilarious!!!!!!!!!

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

- Tanlith -
 
legally impossible

Do you remember the Macarena song? That guy sold that song for a few grand. I'd kill myself if that was me.

I was signed to a label and we gave them the plublishers share. (They say it's 50% but it's really 100%) We kept the writers share (100%) We never made money but the point is that here in Canada it's IMPOSSIBLE for a publisher or label to take the writer's share it's not legal. They just can't take it.

Secondly. The 11 grand you're getting is NOT a gift. You are giving them a finished product so they save $ on studio and production.

Do they have to recoup that 10 grand before you see royalties?

Do you know that if you produce your onw cd and sell 1000 copies you'll make more than 10 grand and you'll still have your tunes!!

If you sign give them your shitty tunes...Actually that might actually sell more these days so scratch that...

Good luck.

One last thing. If they are mainly interested in your publishing that means they KNOW your tunes kick ass and they know that they can have another artist record the tune and make serious money.

Sylvester Stallone was offered 100,000 dollars for the first Rocky script. He was starving but belived in himdself so he didn't sell it. Look at him know.

10 grand is not alot of money. If you wanna give your tunes you should get 50000 to 100,000 up front. Then you sell.

Labels piss me off!
 
yes, the label would have to recoup the $10,000 before i would see any royalties.

i think the tunes kick ass...but then i wrote them, so im biased.
 
Did you sign the deal?

So the 10 grand is not a Gift. You're actually paying for it. Let us know if you decide to sign or not. Good luck.

By the way if you're tunes are really great maybe other publishers would be interested in giving you a better deal.
 
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