Public Mix Contest #12!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Markaholic]

I replaced that 64 kbps file with a 192kbps. I guess I was in hurry and didn't notice that my encoder was on 64.

Wouldn`t come close to what you guys are capable of but I thought it might be a great learning experience. I would appreciate anybody droppin tips that might help with what they hear.

Ken


http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=2054&alid=-1

Much better quality!!..Now i can listen to it..ill give feedback on it in a few!
Anyone ever get a chance to listen to my second attempt?..my wifes gone for another 3 hours so i can work on it w/o driving her mad!!

 

[xfinsterx]

You'll probably find that in this genre, an acceptable mix uses a LOT more compression than you're used to, and on instruments you wouldn't normally put any on, and in techniques (serial and parallel compression) you wouldn't normally consider for jazz.
Same goes for EQ. Someone mentioned these tracks shouldn't need much EQ but I disagree. Some of them need subtle changes (a couple db here and there on the drum overheads, for example), but some have such a DRASTIC tone problem (bass, kick, snare) that up to 10db boosts/cuts are needed to get anything useful out of them.
IMHO in this genre you just have to do what sounds good and not think about that it may be "wrong" to do it. If crazy EQ makes it sound better, then you just do it and forget about any rules.
Also, pan wide. Overheads and guitars at full L and R.
Compress the crap out of those cymbals.

And don't be afraid to completely trash some of the tracks. I got rid of half the extraneous bass and drum tracks because they didn't add a damn thing.

Replacing lacking tracks with different tones is also common practice. I "reamped" most of the guitar and bass tracks and used my own drum samples.

Youve got quite a bit of stank on some of your opinions in this statement.

Maybe try toning down your statements of absolution.

"Compress the crap out of those cymbals"..for example.

That is not helping anyone.

-Finster

 

[bleyrad]

That is not helping anyone.

Obviously what anyone does with the mix is their personal preference.
I approached this song from the angle of making it sound like it wouldn't be out of place on a modern commercially-released album.
In other words, to make it sound similar to a good-sounding major release.
Lots of compression is essential to this sound. And of course not just "lots," but lots of well-dialed-in and suiting compression.

If you'd rather approach it from the angle of shooting for an indie artistic release, then feel free. This was my angle on it. I tend to think that this particular genre actually does benefit from lots of processing. I know this type of thinking goes against the grain of this forum, and heavy processing is almost entirely frowned upon here AS A RULE (I think this hurts just as much as my generalizations) but I also know a) what sells and b) what sounds good to me. In this particular case, they were the same approach.
I am not really a fan of most of these mixes. They're interesting and people are obviously learning well in the process. But, most of them are very sparse, small, light, and narrow IMHO. This is because people are relying very closely on the sound of the original tracks to carry the song. Your tracking was methodical and clean, so I applaud that, but in many cases quite lacking in tone. This isn't really a bad thing for this project, because it makes the PMC more of an interesting challenge than if all the tone was right there to begin with. If this was my tracking project and I was shooting for a non-demo release of any sort, I would either seriously consider retracking some of the stuff or force myself to accept really heavy processing.
This isn't meant as an offense in any way. I'm sure you are a great engineer. Just that it seems like some of these tracks were setup in too much of a hurry, without any time spent on critical listening to the tone.

 

[Dogman]

Im in a state of near despair with this. I've spent six hours on it, and I can't even get an acceptable sounding drum mix. Maybe it's that I hate the cymbals. Or that the bass parts have no fundamental definition beyond the sharp articulation of the pick used.

Or, more accurately, this music is SO far removed from what I like, listen to, and even remotely understand, that I think I may be incapable of doing it justice. I have no idea if what I'm doing sounds good for the genre; it might be brilliant but I'd never know. It's difficult to sit through and work on though, because other than the obvious technical brilliance of the players, I can find nothing pleasing or redeeming to listen to in this song. After about a hour of reps, I am nervous and edgy because of the assault on my senses. And I haven't even loaded the lead vox yet.

I guess this says a lot about engineering and mixing; it's not a universal skill; it's genre-specific. Someone might be a great pop/rock engineer, but they'd be lost doing Jazz, or classical. Or vice-versa.

Anyway, I have a great deal of respect for anyone that can do this particular genre justice, because it's just kicking my ass. And I'm pretty good at this stuff, usually.

Any thoughts/insights? Is a Smooth Jazz guy just flat in over his head trying to do punk/speed metal/whatever this is?

Llarion, no matter what you do with this mix, you are going to learn something. For most of us, it's going to be hard, just because of the shear number of tracks. That's partly what is so appealing about it. I've never played with 1/2 this many tracks before. Plus, all teh different takes on the same instrument, or voice, gives you lots of options, but has been baffling to me. I can come up with many ways to make an ok mix, but it will take time to get a good one, at least from me. All part of the learning process. If you get frustrated, just take a break. You'll come back to it, and want to do more later. These guys ripping a mix apart are just here to help. Use this as the great tool it's designed for, and it can only help you in your own music.
Ed

 

[Dogman]

Much better quality!!..Now i can listen to it..ill give feedback on it in a few!
Anyone ever get a chance to listen to my second attempt?..my wifes gone for another 3 hours so i can work on it w/o driving her mad!!

Interesting intro. Nice drum sounds. I like it. Very clean to me, music wise. Vocals sound good. Nice job, in my opinion.
Ed

 

[Farview]

Someone mentioned these tracks shouldn't need much EQ but I disagree.

What I was trying to get at was that you could get a workable mix with very little eq at all. I was saying this as a reaction to several mixes that had no midrange in any of the instruments.

 

[bleyrad]

I was saying this as a reaction to several mixes that had no midrange in any of the instruments.

This I definitely agree with. There's a lack of general tonality and mids in many of these mixes.


Anyway... I actually tweaked my mix a bit (I know, I said I wouldn't, but fresh ears showed me a couple things), and it won't let me edit my old post, so HERE is in fact what should be my real final mix:

http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?fid=1173

Is there still no deadline for this PMC? It's been running a while.

 

[Llarion]

Llarion, no matter what you do with this mix, you are going to learn something. For most of us, it's going to be hard, just because of the shear number of tracks. That's partly what is so appealing about it. I've never played with 1/2 this many tracks before. Plus, all the different takes on the same instrument, or voice, gives you lots of options, but has been baffling to me. I can come up with many ways to make an ok mix, but it will take time to get a good one, at least from me. All part of the learning process. If you get frustrated, just take a break. You'll come back to it, and want to do more later. These guys ripping a mix apart are just here to help. Use this as the great tool it's designed for, and it can only help you in your own music.
Ed

Thanks Dog... I'm not worried even a little about getting shredded in reviews of my mix on this; I assume I'm gonna be in the bottom 10%. And it IS a fantastic learning tool and experience for me! My ear is not suited to this style; you've heard enough of my stuff to know where my mixing and mastering sensibilities lie. My wife has been a GREAT help to me today, she listened while I mixed, and she's a head banger, so she knows her shred. She had me put the guitars a full 9dB higher than I'd have done, and it works far better. I got to a drum and bass mix, and the two guitar parts I like. Here's a rawmixdown of those, just to hear the direction it's headed. I'm working on the vocals now. I finally found the meat in the drums...

Drums, Bass, Guitar submix 1

 

[mshilarious]

Is there still no deadline for this PMC? It's been running a while.

I'll propose Sunday Oct. 9 as the deadline, since I'm traveling until then & can't listen to mixes after today.

Holler if that deadline doesn't work for you!

 

[xfinsterx]

I'll propose Sunday Oct. 9 as the deadline, since I'm traveling until then & can't listen to mixes after today.

Holler if that deadline doesn't work for you!

Proposal denied.

As i clearly stated, il set that date at a later time Jon.

-Finster

 

[xfinsterx]

I tend to think that this particular genre actually does benefit from lots of processing. I know this type of thinking goes against the grain of this forum

How could there be a "anti heavy processing" overtone in a amateur home mixer forum?

Thats either banter on your part or BS or just plain both....

These people, including myself are here to learn, not walk in with a "i dont heavily process my sounds" disposition.

Not trying to start a flame war here dude, im simply noticing your tendency to pigeonhole, and generalize things.

Have a good day!

-Finster

 

[mshilarious]

Proposal denied.

As i clearly stated, il set that date at a later time Jon.

-Finster

Fine with me, I just didn't want it before!

 

[xfinsterx]

Fine with me, I just didn't want it before!

And it wont be i promise .

-Finster

 

[snow lizard]

Need to get the drums under control--all of 'em!

Cool.

So far the only real mixing I've compared mine to is a few of the others people have put up. Pretty much all I've done so far is select a few tracks and throw the levels up to see what's there to try to find balances to work with, save cleaning a few tracks, panning and one or two touches of compression.

I'm curious to see what some of you people are using for reference tracks (as I haven't used a reference track yet, but I digress...)

I was thinking:

This Flight Tonight - Joni Mitchell
Rain Will Fall - I Mother Earth
Old Meat Frame - Andy West
Train of Consequences - Megadeath
Assembly Language - The Mistakes
Transmogrification of Chile (Ennui) - The Mistakes
Sending Out A Warning - Victor
Pig - Steve Vai
Fluff - Black Sabbath
Behaviour Control Technician - Fishbone
Two Against Nature - Steely Dan

Uhh...

This is about the heaviest stuff in my collection. No, I don't have any Strapping Young Lad or Devon Townsend solo stuff.

Any suggestions?

Also, is there an average signal level that you guys would suggest correcting reference tracks to, as a "target" for where your levels should be aiming before mastering?


sl

 

[mshilarious]

Also, is there an average signal level that you guys would suggest correcting reference tracks to, as a "target" for where your levels should be aiming before mastering?

PNC #11, most people turned in peaks between -2dB and -6dB, RMS -11dB to -16dB. This style could be a bit hotter than that for RMS, but I wouldn't mix with a certain RMS in mind. You can't get balance simply by limiting the master.

 

[Wireneck]

Just out of curiousity, how many of you guys are using sound replacement on the drums? There are at least 2 mixes that I've checked out that sound like there are some mis-triggered kicks? Maybe it was like that before but I don't recall catching it in Finster's original mix.

 

[geet73]

And....... here's mix #4.

http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?fid=1138

The vocals are driving me nuts. I haven't been able to get them sit right for some reason. Eh. I'll probably listen tomorrow and ask why I uploaded this.

Anyone else?

Thanks, Dogman. The click really makes the kick stand out and it throws me off. I might have to cut it down a bit. Heh.

I went with a bit longer/more of a 'verb on the vox this time. I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

 

[NYMorningstar]

This I definitely agree with. There's a lack of general tonality and mids in many of these mixes.


Anyway... I actually tweaked my mix a bit (I know, I said I wouldn't, but fresh ears showed me a couple things), and it won't let me edit my old post, so HERE is in fact what should be my real final mix:

http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?fid=1173

Is there still no deadline for this PMC? It's been running a while.

Sounds too compressed which stole some of the dynamics from the tracks. Also, mixing up the arrangement can be a good idea but the beginning doesn't seem to serve any purpose other than introducing the mid section mud. Too much panning throughout the song. Too much processing overall.

 

[NYMorningstar]

Retribution never felt so slight. maybe???

 

[Kainz]

Okay, here is my new one. I would be glad if someone could confirm if the overall bass is in order.

I think I finally got those vox to sit at least somewhat...

The link to the mp3

I'm starting to be somewhat statisfied to this mix.. Now I only have to "master" it. There are some annoying mid freq. bumps I would like to EQ out. Also maby just a little limiting/compressing and I think it should be quite done..