Proper gain levels for drum tracking?

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Greg_L said:
It's funny. I didn't know this beforehand (I never read the manual) but I checked it out after seeing this thread, and the manufacturer of my interface specifically says to "set the input gain as high as possible without clipping". Their "how to" video on their website says the same thing. :laughings:
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Yep. That is the analog input gain. My comments had related to the input level when it hits the DAW. After the gain of the interface preamp. Not like it affects you. Your stuff sounds great. Imagine a newbie trying to hit his meters as hard as possible within Reaper/Cubase?whatever. Quick destruction.
 
jimmys69 said:
Yep. That is the analog input gain. My comments had related to the input level when it hits the DAW. After the gain of the interface preamp. Not like it affects you. Your stuff sounds great. Imagine a newbie trying to hit his meters as hard as possible within Reaper/Cubase?whatever. Quick destruction.
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I don't know anything about this stuff. I just press record and let the magic take over. But anyway, if you're not overloading the pre on the way in, how does it matter when it hits the DAW? That's what faders are for.
 
Greg_L said:
I don't know anything about this stuff. I just press record and let the magic take over. But anyway, if you're not overloading the pre on the way in, how does it matter when it hits the DAW? That's what faders are for.
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Like was stated before, it depends on the output level of the preamp and it's calibration to the DAW. An external preamp can have different output levels depending on the unit. An interface and it's own preamps can add to that. I know that Cubase LE(whatever) does not allow input level adjustment. So you are limited to controlling gain before recording. Most full version DAW's I am sure have this. The whole thing here, from my perspective, is that good/clean sound is best achieved by having input levels (at DAW) at way under 0dB. Or -18 dBFS or so.
 
Greg_L said:
It's funny. I didn't know this beforehand (I never read the manual) but I checked it out after seeing this thread, and the manufacturer of my interface specifically says to "set the input gain as high as possible without clipping". Their "how to" video on their website says the same thing. :laughings:
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Yep....tons of manuals say that. The poor masses are being deceived.
 
Greg_L said:
It's funny. I didn't know this beforehand (I never read the manual) but I checked it out after seeing this thread, and the manufacturer of my interface specifically says to "set the input gain as high as possible without clipping". Their "how to" video on their website says the same thing. :laughings:
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Seen that a lot too. Still blows my mind.
 
My Roland VS2400 says the same thing in the manual. I don't exactly follow their advice, but I don't specifically target -18 or -12 or whatever either.
 
I think it's different when you have an all-in-one (pre/DI/converter) box...VS...standalone pres and converters.
With all-in-one boxes people just focus on one knob/one meter in many cases...there is less concern about matching operating and Output/Input levels between multiple devices.
 
miroslav said:
I think it's different when you have an all-in-one (pre/DI/converter) box...VS...standalone pres and converters.
With all-in-one boxes people just focus on one knob/one meter in many cases...there is less concern about matching operating and Output/Input levels between multiple devices.
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That's probably true. Thank God for digital for dummies. :)
 
Greg_L said:
So what's it supposed to be on a Firepod?
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Dunno. I use a firepod. When I track drums I set the levels by looking at what's happening in Reaper. I get nervous about clipping, so I set the Firepod gains conservatively, then operate on the wavs once recorded.
 
gecko zzed said:
Dunno. I use a firepod. When I track drums I set the levels by looking at what's happening in Reaper. I get nervous about clipping, so I set the Firepod gains conservatively, then operate on the wavs once recorded.
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That's what I do mostly. I set everything up and whack a drum as hard as I can while watching the meters in Reaper. With the fader at 0, if the meter stays green, I'm good. If it's yellow or clips, I turn the pre on the firepod down until it stays green. I have no idea what the numbers are. If my kick is 2db hotter than the snare, but doesn't clip, I don't care. It's gonna get mixed anyway. The rest can be taken care of with faders.
 
jimmys69 said:
I know that Cubase LE(whatever) does not allow input level adjustment. So you are limited to controlling gain before recording. Most full version DAW's I am sure have this.
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You don't want to mess with the levels on the input channel in the DAW anyway. If you have the input clipping and you turn it down in cubase, it's too late. You are just turning down a clipped signal. The only level that matters is on the analog side of the converters, once it's in the digital domain, it really doesn't matter.

The reason you want to run at line level is because that is where the preamp, and everything else in the analog path, is designed to be run. That is where the signal to noise is the best, that's where the signal path is the most linear.

The tricky thing is that the average level of the signal is what will have the most effect on the signal path, but the meter that most of us are looking at is reading peak levels. So you run into situations where a snare drum that hits -1dbfs is just fine but a sine wave at -3dbfs is starting to get a little fuzzy.

With all in one units, you really don't know where the calibration point is, so you don't know how much headroom is built into the system.
 
Greg_L said:
What the hell is a "normal" tracking level? There's too much varying info out there. You say one thing, someone else says something else, my ears tell me it doesn't matter, so what gives?
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Greg_L said:
are we being bombarded with too much differing flawed technical information on internet message boards? :confused:
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"The left says yes and the right says no
I'm in between and the more I learn
the less that I know........."
Almost all of the information on HR is like this. One person is absolutely fixed one way, another is fixed the other and they both utterly contradict each other. Sometimes, it even becomes war in cyberspace.
Then you listen to examples of both sides' work and they're both brilliant.
Being right is overrated !
Perhaps it's the wishy washy wivvle wavvle way but I'm of the belief that it all works, one way or the other. We all prove that here. Differences can be a blessing or a curse.
 
grimtraveller said:
"The left says yes and the right says no
I'm in between and the more I learn
the less that I know........."
Almost all of the information on HR is like this. One person is absolutely fixed one way, another is fixed the other and they both utterly contradict each other. Sometimes, it even becomes war in cyberspace.
Then you listen to examples of both sides' work and they're both brilliant.
Being right is overrated !
Perhaps it's the wishy washy wivvle wavvle way but I'm of the belief that it all works, one way or the other. We all prove that here. Differences can be a blessing or a curse.
Click to expand...

Thank you for shedding absolutely no light on the subject. :laughings:
 
grimtraveller said:
"The left says yes and the right says no
I'm in between and the more I learn
the less that I know........."
Almost all of the information on HR is like this. One person is absolutely fixed one way, another is fixed the other and they both utterly contradict each other. Sometimes, it even becomes war in cyberspace.
Then you listen to examples of both sides' work and they're both brilliant.
Being right is overrated !
Perhaps it's the wishy washy wivvle wavvle way but I'm of the belief that it all works, one way or the other. We all prove that here. Differences can be a blessing or a curse.
Click to expand...
YOu have to consider the source. Some guy that only does jazz recordings is going to have a completely different take on drum micing and gain structure than a guy that does nothing but death metal.

Some mic preamps, especially expensive ones, add a little mojo when you push them harder than you are 'supposed to'. A guy that uses that sort of equipment is going to do something completely different than he would if he was using the stock preamps in a Mackie.

The whole 'average signal around -18dbfs' thing is a general guideline that will work in all cases because it is not too hot in any normal situation to cause any problems and it's not so low as to cause any problems the other way. As long as you understand the difference between average level and peak level, this will never be a bad way to go to get clean tracks.
 
You mean something that is more quieter is going to need more gain than something that is louder?

Holly shit really?! :laughings:
 
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