Professional Help Needed Please?!?!?!

[gjukonline]

Right..*sigh*..

It's a long post..I Know..But please please please help me out i've been waiting 9 weeks for this to come together! It's my second thread on these forums..I keep encountering problems with my set-up.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEAAASE If You Could Help Me I Would Be SOO Thankfull

my aim is to record urban vocals over a soundtrack. Simple...right?
Not for me

I am just starting out. So please don't beat me up for my equipment. It's just to get me off the marker and to find out if it's something i want to do in the long run

microphone: Behringer B2-Pro (large diaphram condensor)
Pre/mixer: Behringer Xenyx 802 (phantom power, EQ, FX)
leads: TRS from "main out" of mixer to an adaptor for soundcard
Soundcard: Creative Soundblaster Audigy SE

Now. Initially i bought my microphone and mixer based on a friends set up. His sounds perfect and warm in similar use.

Mine however, does not. He uses the old B2 (not pro) and a tapco mix60 mixer (£15GBP cheaper than my Behringer one)

his sound card is onbard i assume (not sure & neither is he). So i would have thought my "Audigy SE" would be better than his too.

So why does my recordings sound worse if theoretically (spelling) My set-up is of better quality..?

My Set-up is crisp and warm when hooked up as:

Microphone > Mixer > Studio Headphones

So my guess is there is no faults with the mixer and microphone.

It all goes wrong (i'll explain soon) when i rig it to my computer, so I'm almost positive it's either the soundcard or settings somewhere.

NOW HERES THE BIT I NEED HELP WITH DESPERATELY

Whilst I'. record into DAW's (more than one attempted) it all sounds good.
I can hear myself clearly through my headphones and i can hear the soundtrack at the same time.

However, when i playback the recording along side the soundtrack, the recording seems to delay a few Milisecs and after about 10-15secs it becomes more noticable, causing the perfect recording i have done...to run off beat after a while

( I might have just been able to say, "Latency", But as I'm still a novice I wanted to explain what was hapenning thouroughly so i don't buy stuff / change stuff i don't need. )

The other issue I'm having is the recording sounds nice and loud whilst recording..but when i playback it isn't that loud and i don't want to have to boost / dynamicly (spelling) adjust EVERY recording i do.

I understand that ASIO drivers are important for recording and my "SoundBlaster" supports "ASIO4ALL" but I'm guessing it's universal & may not be that effective.

I also understand that "SoundBlasters" are frowned upon by many recording artists..Lucky It's Only £20 I Spent On It.. I know people..should have researched..my Bad..

SOOO.... I need some advice on what to do to fix the delay & volume problem and it sounds simple but I can't get it.

Is it possible to sort delay with a "Soundblaster"?
do i need to buy a firewire interface?
could i go:
mic > mixer > interface > DAW, if i bought an interface?
is there any other suggestions / ways to sort it out?
& finally..how could i fix / improve my low volume after recording issue?

Congratulations if you made it to the end of this thread LOL
please help me if you can. I would appreciate it so much and if your suggestion works i'm sure I could send you my album when It's recorded

=]

Thanks again kind people
love for you all
xxx

 

[aviv]

mate, as long as you have the sound blaster you will have latency problems
if you dont have the cash on you then the only thing i can suggest is to find a way to deal with it, if the track it self is late in the DAW then can you not move it back or forward a few milliseconds to sort it out?
aviv

 

[gjukonline]

mate, as long as you have the sound blaster you will have latency problems
if you dont have the cash on you then the only thing i can suggest is to find a way to deal with it, if the track it self is late in the DAW then can you not move it back or forward a few milliseconds to sort it out?
aviv

Ahh right so SoundBlasters are that bad are they?
I thought it could be it..=\
What kind of product do you recommend baring in mind i'm just a novice and only want one microphone recording at a time..

Do you recommend a better soundcard or an interface?
and what kind of price would i be looking at to get no latency

i have tried shifting it back a few m/s' but it progressively gets more delayed..its not a few m/s then okay..the whole thing gets delayed as it goes along if you get me? hard to explain.

Thanks for your input
=]

 

[KineticSound]

microphone: Behringer B2-Pro (large diaphram condensor)
Pre/mixer: Behringer Xenyx 802 (phantom power, EQ, FX)
leads: TRS from "main out" of mixer to an adaptor for soundcard
Soundcard: Creative Soundblaster Audigy SE

As you state: fine starting point.

His sounds perfect and warm in similar use. Mine however, does not.

How are they different? "Warm" is an overused and oft misunderstood term. Is his clearer? Does it have more low frequency? More high frequency? This might be a reflection on different recording environments.

My Set-up is crisp and warm when hooked up as:
Microphone > Mixer > Studio Headphones
So my guess is there is no faults with the mixer and microphone.
It all goes wrong when i rig it to my computer, so I'm almost positive it's either the soundcard or settings somewhere.

So... your friend's setup does not sound better?

If your sound is good on the front-end (mic to preamp/mixer), then the problem is in how you are capturing the sound and what's happening to it between performance and playback. The DAW is going to reproduce exactly what you feed into it, so we'll focus on how the sound is captured. (more below)

Whilst I'. record into DAW's (more than one attempted) it all sounds good.
I can hear myself clearly through my headphones and i can hear the soundtrack at the same time.

However, when i playback the recording along side the soundtrack, the recording seems to delay a few Milisecs and after about 10-15secs it becomes more noticable, causing the perfect recording i have done...to run off beat after a while

(I might have just been able to say, "Latency", But as I'm still a novice I wanted to explain what was hapenning thouroughly so i don't buy stuff / change stuff i don't need.)

The other issue I'm having is the recording sounds nice and loud whilst recording..but when i playback it isn't that loud and i don't want to have to boost / dynamically adjust EVERY recording i do.

OK, Houston - we have a problem. Weird question, but are you recording or importing the soundtrack into your DAW software and then adding a track for vocals? How are you monitoring signals?

You have two issues: one is the quality of recording being captured by the DAW. To improve this, the #1 thing we can do is practice setting improved levels. Don't worry about the monitoring for this part, work on setting a level with plenty of headroom. The objective is to get the audio into the DAW cleanly. We'll worry about the loudness level in the mix, when you can add a little compression and boost the signal of the track.

Your second issue is either a latency problem or a clock problem. Assuming that you're importing the "soundtrack" file into your DAW, then adding a track for the vocals, you should be OK. Make sure your RAM buffer is set appropriately on your PC. If it persists, then there's a workaround in which you can monitor the soundtrack output along with your signal via the monitor (vs. headphone out of your PC), but that's a bit more work.

 

[gjukonline]

How are they different? "Warm" is an overused and oft misunderstood term. Is his clearer? Does it have more low frequency? More high frequency? This might be a reflection on different recording environments.

In regards to them being different. I mean after being recorded to a DAW channel, and by warmer i mean clearer and with a Boost on the low end EQ..

When played through the mixer only..both of our set-ups sound very similar. It's just when a computer is involved..his still maintains that clear and low boosted good quality sound..whereas mine is off beat gradually and quiet / distorts easily.

Thats the differences.

OK, Houston - we have a problem. Weird question, but are you recording or importing the soundtrack into your DAW software and then adding a track for vocals? How are you monitoring signals?

I am importing the soundtrack into the DAW software for example, in channel 1. Then recording a vocal track in channel 2. And initially, overdubbing in channel 3 ETC..

This is the right way to do it correct?

I'm not 100% sure what you mean by "how am I monitoring signals"
I'm guessing this will explain...

I have my XLR in channel one in the mixer and a Duel (L&R) TRS from "main out" in the mixer..to "line in" on the SoundBlaster. Then i have my headphones in "line out" on my SoundBlaster & so with this my headphones play what I'm recording & imported files.

one is the quality of recording being captured by the DAW. To improve this, the #1 thing we can do is practice setting improved levels.

OK..So could you please go through how i would do this? Sorry for being such a noob. =\

Assuming that you're importing the "soundtrack" file into your DAW, then adding a track for the vocals, you should be OK. Make sure your RAM buffer is set appropriately on your PC. If it persists, then there's a workaround in which you can monitor the soundtrack output along with your signal via the monitor

My RAM buffer is fine I'm Almost certain =\ Could It Be To Do With ASIO / SoundBlaster..
As I've heard Soundblaster will always have latency problems?

Thanks for your input. much appreciated
=]

 

[KineticSound]

In regards to them being different. I mean after being recorded to a DAW channel, and by warmer i mean clearer and with a Boost on the low end EQ..

When played through the mixer only..both of our set-ups sound very similar. It's just when a computer is involved..his still maintains that clear and low boosted good quality sound..whereas mine is off beat gradually and quiet / distorts easily.

Thats the differences.

OK. That's where compression and eq will come in during the mix. It also sounds like either: a) his level setting is allowing him more headroom, so he can compress/boost later - and/or - b) he may have a better vocal technique when singing into his mic. Please don't take offense to this; I'm just trying to help. I've seen professional singers with poor mic technique. Start by pulling your pop filter (assuming you're using one) about 8" away from the mic capsule. This will force some distance between you and the mic and can help even out your sound.

Practice setting your levels so that you have more headroom. If you're distorting easily, your levels are way too hot. Set your input fader (or knob in the case of your Behringer) at unity gain (0dB) and use the trim control on the mixer to bring the average level of input around -18dBFS with peaks around -12dBFS on your input meter in your DAW.

I am importing the soundtrack into the DAW software for example, in channel 1. Then recording a vocal track in channel 2. And initially, overdubbing in channel 3 ETC..

This is the right way to do it correct?

Correct.

I'm not 100% sure what you mean by "how am I monitoring signals"
I'm guessing this will explain...

I have my XLR in channel one in the mixer and a Duel (L&R) TRS from "main out" in the mixer..to "line in" on the SoundBlaster. Then i have my headphones in "line out" on my SoundBlaster & so with this my headphones play what I'm recording & imported files.

Yep, that's what I was asking. You have it set up fine.

My RAM buffer is fine I'm Almost certain =\ Could It Be To Do With ASIO / SoundBlaster..
As I've heard Soundblaster will always have latency problems?

Affirmative. I'm not a SoundBlaster guy, so I shouldn't make generalities - but I've heard this tale before, and this may be an ongoing issue. You have a couple options:
1. replace card. (i.e. throw money at the problem)
2. long shot, but you could monitor the vocal and a feed of just the instruments via the mixer. Tricky, since the Behringer you're using doesn't have inserts/direct outs. It would look like:

Mic -> Mixer -> Mixer stereo out to soundcard stereo in

Headphone out from PC -> Tape in on Behringer, Tape in assigned to Control Room out only. Set your DAW software so that the mic feed records, but is not output to the stereo buss (only the soundtrack is on the stereo buss).

In theory, the Control Room/Phones jack on the Behringer would now monitor the live mic input and the prerecorded soundtrack feed. The DAW is picking up signals from the stereo out of the mixer, which should just be the raw microphone signal. If the SoundBlaster card is creating a playback delay during recording, the problem may be unavoidable, but this might be something to try before you spend any $$$. If the latency is consistently the same amount, you could also try adding about 20 seconds of pre-roll to your track, track it knowing that you'll be a little off, then align the tracks before you play them back. A pain? Yes. Free? Yes.

 

[gjukonline]

a) his level setting is allowing him more headroom, so he can compress/boost later - and/or - b) he may have a better vocal technique when singing into his mic. Please don't take offense to this; I'm just trying to help. I've seen professional singers with poor mic technique. Start by pulling your pop filter (assuming you're using one) about 8" away from the mic capsule. This will force some distance between you and the mic and can help even out your sound.

Coming to think of it, i think it's option A. The volume/distortion is probably to do with my levels and i will test it out ASAP (tomorrow morning as its night time here). As for option B, don't worry, no offence taken. I am 100% open to constructive suggestions particularly because I'm only a 16 year old novice LOL. But I've done myself proud and already positioned my pop filter a good 6-8inchs from my mic and when i record i am around 10 inchs away from it at nearly all times.

Practice setting your levels so that you have more headroom. If you're distorting easily, your levels are way too hot. Set your input fader (or knob in the case of your Behringer) at unity gain (0dB) and use the trim control on the mixer to bring the average level of input around -18dBFS with peaks around -12dBFS on your input meter in your DAW.

This is why I think it's probably to do with my levels as you suggested. I had my Mic level knob around 3/4 of the way up... so dead between 0db & +15db... NOT good at all i'm guessing. LOL. Also, my mic trim was 3/4 the way up too... so 3/4 between +10 & +60 = 45 *AHHH*

Now i've set my mic level to 0db and trim is way down to about a quarter of the way up to start with..soo...
ready for testing tomorrow.
I can see what you mean..to give me headroom for the compression/boost.. & I only think my mixer levels were so high because i couldn't hear the recording that loud whilst recording to the soundtrack so i moved the line level and trim up because it was in front of me. now you have given me advice, I'm guessing I keep my mixer levels the same at nearly all times..and only change volume etc through computer to stop peaking so easily? (more headroom initially)

Tell me if I'm talking rubbish...please LOL!

As for latency issue..

RAM Buffer: Check
Import Soundtrack: Check
Signal Monitoring: Check

1. replace card. (i.e. throw money at the problem)
2. long shot, but you could monitor the vocal and a feed of just the instruments via the mixer. Tricky, since the Behringer you're using doesn't have inserts/direct outs. It would look like:

As for option 1, spending money..I don't mind at all. Waiting all of my summer holidays to get a set-up to work has drained me =\
Not saying I'm desperate. But money isn't an issue. I earn good money for my age too..

& as for option 2...I don't know if i could handle trying to go through all that as a novice with this particular mixer. Especially if it does end up to be the Sound Blaster in the first place LOL.

What do you think on this idea for option 1.

I purchase either a new soundcard / firewire interface that will almost certainly not give me latency issues and is recommended by people who know what they are doing such as yourself. & if i find it not to fix my problem, I can simply (or close to simply) return it. *taking into acount I check the returns policy before buying from a particular store*

If you think that sounds a reasonable plan..Would you have any recomendations?
Or know anybody who could recomend me a soundcard/interface for home recording in mind?

Thanks Once Again For Your Kind Support & suggestions
=]

 

[KineticSound]

Now i've set my mic level to 0db and trim is way down to about a quarter of the way up to start with..soo...
ready for testing tomorrow.
I can see what you mean..to give me headroom for the compression/boost.. & I only think my mixer levels were so high because i couldn't hear the recording that loud whilst recording to the soundtrack so i moved the line level and trim up because it was in front of me. now you have given me advice, I'm guessing I keep my mixer levels the same at nearly all times..and only change volume etc through computer to stop peaking so easily? (more headroom initially)

Yes, Yes, and Yes!!! Set your recording level with the trim and the monitor level with the software fader. Exactly!

I purchase either a new soundcard / firewire interface that will almost certainly not give me latency issues and is recommended by people who know what they are doing such as yourself. & if i find it not to fix my problem, I can simply (or close to simply) return it. *taking into acount I check the returns policy before buying from a particular store*

If you think that sounds a reasonable plan..Would you have any recomendations?
Or know anybody who could recomend me a soundcard/interface for home recording in mind?

Honestly, I'm not your guy. My DAW background is more on standalone devices and less with software & interfaces. (I'm still learning the fine points of Logic and my Tascam control surface) There are, however, about a million posts on this board to discuss one interface vs. another and how one interface works with software "x" and so forth. The search function is your friend. Search "interfaces" and you'll get more info than you can digest. Search for posts from Pipeline and Antichef - they seem to know about 500% more about soundcards than I do.

 

[gjukonline]

Thank You So Much For Your Help on This Thread..
Seriously I'm soo Greatfull!

I've come a long way tonight in understanding more about my mixer and recording thanks to you. I thought I knew what i was doing as it was. You've shone a descent light in the dark for me and I know what I'm doing now

So Thanks once again and maybe we'll talk again soon
=]

 

[RD423]

What software are you using, as this seems it is either a latency issue in the software itself which could "potentially" be fixed with a few clicks of the mouse, or it could just be the soundcard and I have heard nothing but bad things about using a soundblaster for recording.

 

[gjukonline]

What software are you using

I've Tried It With A Few Programs. FL Studio 8, Audacity, Magix Music Maker 12 Deluxe, Sonar & Cool Edit.

If You're Talking About The RAM Buffer Then It's OK And If You Mean Something Else Please Explain
=]

I have heard nothing but bad things about using a soundblaster for recording.

Same Here, I Should Have Done My Research Before Buying It Really. Lucky It Was Only £20..
I Think I Will Try A New Audio Interface With A Good Returns Policy If It Doesn't Fix It..

And If It Does My Level Path Will Then Be..

Mic > Mixer > Interface > DAW

Thanks For Your Input
=]

 

[axeman_ukl]

does the computer have its own sound card ?
if so disable the sound blaster and try it

soundblasters .......yes i remember when i had one recording out of time
i do remember there was something to enable something like hear as you record in the settings plus i'm not shure if the asio drivers will be of any use to you sometimes they create problems for cards that dont support them 100%