problems with clipping

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bennym1219

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hey

i've recorded a djembe using two tracks. One track is a condenser mic and the other is a dynamic mic. I placed the condenser underneath the djembe and the dynamic mic at the top.

when i play back the tracks in the mix they are very quiet. the strange thing is that when i look in the mixer in cubase, the individual djembe tracks are peaking at about 0db, but they are causing the master track to peak at +3db.

the other thing is that when the tracks are peaking at about 0db, i can hardly hear them in the mix (everything else is peaking at about -2db or less)

can anyone explain why this is???

thanks
 
You need to flip the phase on one of them. Also, if you are recording digitally you are recording way too hot. If you are using 24bit then you need only peak at about -18dbfs.
 
Second that - If you have individual tracks peaking at -2, something is probably very, Very, VERY wrong...
 
Djembe djembe djembe...

Hey,

First off, summing the two 0dB signals is what is killing you. Get the individual levels down to -10 or so, and see what you get.

You may end up flipping the phase of one track, but experiment and see which way gives you a fuller bottom-end. That is the way to determine if the two mics are phase-cancelling. If you are phasing, your low-end will disappear. If you flip the phase and all of a sudden a thunderous low end appears, you've got it right.

Next, reverse your mic placement. I know you didn't ask about this, but the condenser will be better served on top of the djembe, where it will bring out the articulated attack. You'll want the dynamic mic underneath, where the column of air is blasting out of the shell. The high SPL's that can be generated down there are more suited to a dynamic mic.

I say this as a drummer who has tracked lots of djembe. I used a djembe & mounted tambourine as a drumkit to track an "unplugged" acoustic version of a rock album for a band I was in, maybe 4 or 5 years ago. Just recently tracked some as incidental backing percussion for another guy's album as well, so I'm not completely senile, here. ;)
 
cool thanks for that

just checking...when you say get the levels down to -10db, do you mean actually recording the track with it peaking at around -10db, or simply lowering the track volume so that it peaks at -10db?

also (could be a stupid question), but if i do that, then wont the final mix down have a very low volume?

thanks
 
You want to keep the input levels at a "normal" spot (-10dBFS is actually pretty hot - probably around +8 on the front end, depending on where the converters are calibrated. But for a percussive instrument, it could be worse).

And if you record at normal levels, your mixdown will probably be at a normal level.

This is normal. This is how "the pros do it" - This is how it's been done for decades.

Will it be quiet compared to professionally recorded and mastered commercially available tracks? Probably so, as it hasn't even gone through the mastering phase yet.

But if you're looking for a mix that will come OUT of the mastering phase with some dignity, it'd better darn well go in with some headroom.

They key to a "hot" mix is NOT to track and mix it "hot" - They key is to keep a good amount of headroom at every single stage, on every single track, every single group, buss, aux, or what not. Then to mix it well with headroom intact.
 
thanks

its funny cause i've read heaps of stuff about how best to do it (for example, in the cubase and tascam documents) and i always seem to get conflicting statements.

for example, alot of the stuff i read says that when setting your levels when getting ready to record, you should "play as loud as you will during the song, and adjust the levels so that they peak at just below 0db". but then i read about headroom, and what i read there was that "-3db headroom was a good amount".

on the us122, there are little red LED's for each of the two channels which indicate when that channel is clipping, and the tascam docs say to play as loud as you will in the song and adjust the channel levels on the us122 so that they are just below where the red 'clip' LED goes off.

but then you say that even -10db is too hot, and that -18db is a good amount.

the reason i say this is cause i have tried to find the answer myself and its really confusing, so forgive me for asking for such a speific answer..but here it goes anyway

for the process of setting the levels BEFORE i start recording...

to get say -18db headroom, should i get this headroom by leaving the channel levels in cubase at 0db (the default) and simply turning the levels on the us122 down? or vice versa? or a combination of the two?

i appreciate your help

by the way, if you like you can check out www.myspace.com/thepachamamas and listen to our stuff, and tell me what you think.

thanks heaps
 
This is starting to get surreal...

Set everything at unity except for the preamp gain. EVERYTHING. Faders, pots, I/O, everything.

Set the preamp gain so a fairly steady signal gives you a reading around 0dBVU.

THAT'S IT - Done.

That 0dBVU signal will translate to somewhere around -18dBFS at your converters. It will peak above, it will valley below. But the "bulk" of the signal will be somewhere around there. The digital meters aren't what's important.

[EDIT]

*Of course* the US122 doesn't HAVE VU meters... What the heck is the world coming to...?

Anyway - In that case, you're going to have to set the output at unity and use the pre-gain (assuming it's the "LINE/MIC" knob in this case) to set the microphone gain.

Then shoot for a signal around -18dBFS. Should be a safe bet. [/EDIT]
 
Most of your tracks are peaking at -2db and you're wondering why you can't hear the djembe? Back off my man! You're overcooking it. Don't worry about things being loud when you're mixing. Also, remember that percussive stuff like djembe is going to sound quieter than something that's held for longer periods of time.

So... here's what I recommend:

Start off with your bass and drums/percussion instruments. Mix them 'til they sit nicely together while your master fader (set at 0) is peaking around -6db or less (-10db isn't that unreasonable). Then start adding the other elements. This way you'll give yourself enough headroom that once all the other stuff is playing you'll still have around -3db or so of headroom. And that will make your mastering engineer very happy.
 
noisewreck said:
-6db or less (-10db isn't that unreasonable)
Click to expand...
-20 isn't unreasonable. -30 isn't unreasonable.

-40... That's getting unreasonable - although it has 8dB MORE usable resolution than a compact disc at full-scale. So, I guess it's really not unreasonable. But I'd shoot higher...
 
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