Preamps on mixers

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chewmanfoo

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Threads of late regarding Behringer mixers and their preamps has got me wondering about the statistics proported by gear manufacturers. Many folks like to rave about how great their mixers pre's are. So I ask you, how can you tell, really? I'm not asking suggesting that you can't tell, only that I wouldn't know what makes a preamp good, great, or crap.

Somebody with a good knowledge of the statistice and their scientific derivation please enlighten me on the subject?

Thanks in advance...
chewy
 
yea . . . you listen to one, and then you listen to the other . . . and the one that sounds better . . . that's the better pre.
 
This I understand,

I can dig your approach, but who has time to listen to every preamp to make an informed decision?

I'd appreciate a more scientific approach. For example, if you told me:

1.) Your condenser mic is capable of producing +22 dB when you're yelling into it...
2.) Your pre can handle +20 dB before overloading (whatever you call it)...
3.) Thus, you need a preamp with more dB's.

That's something I can sink my teeth into. Especially if you tell me what a dB is and why I need more of them etc.

Still Curious,
chewy
 
Well, alrighty then. I'm not very good at this stuff, but I'll try and give you just a few. Here's some specs on the Mackie VLZ Pro mixer:

* Ultra-wide 0-60dB gain range

This basically tells you how much gain it has. What it doesn't tell you is that the more of it you use, the crappier it sounds. :D

* 130dB dynamic range for 24-bit, 192kHz sampling rate inputs

This is basically some extra marketing gobbledy-gook. Ignore it.

*+22dBu line input handling

This is pretty important, as it has to do with the amount of headroom you've got to work with. This also happens to be a pretty impressive figure for a cheap mixer, by the way. In simple terms, it means you can use it louder sources (drums), or higher-output mics with less fear of distortion.

Distortion under 0.0007% (20Hz-20kHz)

I'm not exactly sure how this is measured, but again, in layman's terms it has to do with how clean your signal will be -- pretty obvious, right? Anyway, this is a pretty good figure, too, for a cheap mixer. Take it with a grain of salt -- it's a good thing to look at when comparing the transparency of some of the pres out there.

But it doesn't take in to account the type of distortion that 0.0007% is composed of. :D If it's the yucky kind, then be relieved that it's only 0.0007%, but if it were the good kind, then you may want even more of it, as is the case with quality tube gear. Chances are you won't find much of the good kind with inexpensive stuff.

Two more things you should look at if they're published:

slew rate - this is a measure of how accurately it will respond to transients. It's a speed measurement. Higher and/or lower slew rates are what makes a mic pre "fast" or "slow."

The difference? Fast is usually associated with greater accuracy and detail, while slow is often associated with terms like "warm," and "vintage," etc. This is a realm that is almost completely a matter of personal taste, so keep in mind that faster isn't necessarily better.

Impedence/loading -- A preamp's input impedence is a fairly complex subject that would require at least a page or two of explanation. To simplify, it's a measurement (in ohms) of how the preamp's input is going to react with the microphone's output. Same principle behind speakers and receivers. Just be wary that mics will have a certain impedence that they want to see at a pre's input, and that loading is something to be wary of, as it will often have an effect on the sound.

In general, this is something you will have to consider a lot more when dealing with lower-output dynamic mics, condensers with transformer outputs, and especially ribbon mics. Most transformerless condensers you won't have to worry about as much, as they are much less sensitive to loading.

This is another potentially deceptive figure, as it doesn't take in to account the type and/or quality of input stage. Transforemer inputs, for example, will often deal with loading mismatches quite well . . . but that also depends a lot on the quality of the transformer.

So many things to consider, here. What I've found to be a general rule, though is that higher impedence usually means more detail / less bass, and lower impedence means better handling of sibilances, not as harsh-sounding, etc. This is very generally speaking, though.

My first anwer / explanation is much more relevant than anything I've mentioned in this post.
 
Thanks Chessrock

That answers my question in the "The new Behringer mixers....has anyone " post about the input dBu deal. The info about headroom, impedance differences, and distortion is helpful though, because during an A/B, that stuff might not show itself until later when trying different mics or recording high volume drums. Even as a bottom feeder of the low-end gear, I'm still trying to get the best sound I can for my budget, and learn as much as possible. This board is a great resource.
 
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