Pre Amps, what are they good for? Absolutely...

M

Mongoo

New member
I'm pretty content with the pre amps that came standard on my Akai Dps24 for now. That being said, I haven't really worked with any individual preamp other than an M-Audio Tampa. What can a good pre amp do for my recordings? What are some you would recommend in different price ranges, and Is it better to spend the same money on 1 or 2 channels? (assuming that if all the money goes towards one channel over 2 you are getting higher quality for what you can afford, or if you have 2 channels you can record stereo)

Thanks
 
Mongoo said:
That being said, I haven't really worked with any individual preamp other than an M-Audio Tampa. What can a good pre amp do for my recordings?
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absolutely...everything.

a great pre can make all the difference in the world if you know what you are trying to accomplish with it. I would start out getting a unit that has 1 or 2 channels, and maybe a unit that also has a compressor in it (focusrite platinum-penta $300)...that way you can kill a few birds with one stone.

?M-Audio Tampa? no thanks...
 
It depends on the rest of your setup, mic pres are just another one of those little links in the chain.

Of course a good quality mic pre will usually give you a little something extra, more clarity, more “vibe” or whatever depending on the pre. But we’re talking subtle differences here. If you’ve got good ears and a decent monitoring set up you’ll notice the difference but it won’t slap you around the face. That’s my experience anyway, I’ve heard people who’ve spent a lot of money on a new pre and when they describe their first listen it seems akin to some sort of religious experience. I’m skeptical about that but then I’m not exactly “Mr experience”, maybe my ears just aren’t that tuned in to the differences.

I’ve never known a mic pre make or break a recording though.
 
blueroommusic said:
absolutely...everything.

a great pre can make all the difference in the world if you know what you are trying to accomplish with it. I would start out getting a unit that has 1 or 2 channels, and maybe a unit that also has a compressor in it (focusrite platinum-penta $300)...that way you can kill a few birds with one stone.

?M-Audio Tampa? no thanks...
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Funny you should say that, I've heard people rave about the Tampa and yet I had a Penta for a while a few years back and wasn't blown away by it at all. It did a fine job don't get me wrong but I wouldn't regard it as an "upgrade" from any other budget pre/comp.
 
Depending on the preamp, you can get increased clarity by reducing distortion (assuming you are using a more clean preamp). How well you hear the difference may depend a bit on the type of mics you use (condensers mics with higer output will not see as much difference as a dynamic or ribbon mic), as well as the type of music.

A stereo pair will probably show more 3-dimensional quality to it with a better pre. Things should be more euphonic - more pleasant, less fatiguing, need less EQ, etc.

Some mics may not be usable with a cheap pre. My Beyer ribbons and my RE20 are useless with a cheap preamp, gorgeous with a good preamp.

Some preamps add some syrup to the sound (pleasant-sounding harmonic distortion added to the sound).

Some cleaner preamps - Sytek, Millenia, Grace

Some more colored preamps - Neve & Neve Clones, API
 
Quality mic pre's make a fair amount of difference. Just depends on what sound you're going for. They can range from really clean (Grace) to really colored (Great River, API, etc). It's been my experience, though, that you can change the sound more by changing the microphone you're using to capture that sound. A good pre will just make it sound more "pro" or "finished" or "polished" or whatever other word you want to put in there to describe the difference you hear. That being said, a great pre will make a good mic sound fantastic. That same mic through a cheap pre will sound...cheap.

All in all, though, it's about what you can afford. Get some decent mics in your closet before you start looking into pre's. That's just my opinion. And don't forget your AD/DA. That's a big part of the equation as well. Your sound is only going to be as good as the weakest link in your chain. Unfortunately, the weakest link isn't always easy to identify. You may think it's a mic when it's actually the pre. That mic may kill with another pre.

Anyway, my 2 cents. I could have rambled more but I figured I would spare you.
 
Kevin Deschwazi said:
Funny you should say that, I've heard people rave about the Tampa and yet I had a Penta for a while a few years back and wasn't blown away by it at all. It did a fine job don't get me wrong but I wouldn't regard it as an "upgrade" from any other budget pre/comp.
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honestly, the penta isn't amazing, but it does do really well on bass and OH's, and I like the features of the compressor. it's no high-end unit for sure, but it fits my needs. If I had more money, i'd invest in a lunchbox with some neve and api clones (god, how I miss the amek pre's from my old studio job) :mad:
 
blueroommusic said:
?M-Audio Tampa? no thanks...
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What don't you like about the Tampa Blue? It has a compressor on it as well.

To all though, What would be some logical steps to look at in the pre amp world to improve that link in the chain, taking into consideration the rule of diminishing returns with the more you spend eventually the less you get? As of now I've got 12 pre's on the akai board, and they are pretty clean, I have to crank it up to about 9 for an RE20 but it does work. Like I mentioned I also have a Tampa to work with, which is okay and has a compressor on it.

Right now I'm looking to upgrade a few weak links, like SDC's for one, a keyboard, and a few other things. In general I think my mic selection is tight enough aside from the SDC's, I'm solid on cables, and I've only heard good things about the Akai's AD/DA converters (haven't disliked them by any means myself). I don't know how much I would have left after picking up what I know I need, to shell towards a new pre-amp or even if I really need one at all yet. But considering what I have now, how much would I have to spend to hear a noticeable improvement and have a piece of gear worth keeping in the future? More so what are some examples brands/models.

Thanks again
 
I have a Tampa aswell. I've found that if a take doesn't sound right it's generally not the pre!
The room, mic and placement make a much bigger difference to my recordings than my Tampa or DMP3!
I don't see myself upgrading these for a very long time because there a far more significant things I can look at which will noticeably improve the quality of my recordings!
 
dickiefunk said:
I have a Tampa aswell. I've found that if a take doesn't sound right it's generally not the pre!
The room, mic and placement make a much bigger difference to my recordings than my Tampa or DMP3!
I don't see myself upgrading these for a very long time because there a far more significant things I can look at which will noticeably improve the quality of my recordings!
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Agreed. I've got an Octane--8 channels of the same pre in a DMP3 or Tampa. I also have a number of other budget to mid tier pres. It's real easy to get hung up on pres, but they're not the magic pill for your sound. The best philosophy is to work with pres that don't get in your way. As long as they're not crapping up your sound, you can focus on all the other things that make a much bigger difference--the room, the mics, the instruments, the performance, the room (did I mention the room?). Getting those right will yield improvements of geometric proportions. When those are good, then come back and worry about a better pre--which will yield a small, incremental improvement.

Rant over...
 
Thank you all for your thoughts. I'll try to think more of what I can do with room treatment to improve the sound. Any Ideas on that?
 
It's a bedroom studio, carpeted concrete floors, hanging ceiling. A big enough room for a drum set and some walking space around it to place mic stands in a variety of positions for recording amps that I have lined up either at a side of the room or in a corner facing it's opposite. Currently the bass amp is on the ground & Guitar amp is raised about 3' sitting on an adjacent desk. The main desk is centered mostly against the wall aside from there being a closet with two openings which adds width to the room.

First off, Whats your take on amps being recorded on or off the floor? Does it matter? I should note that the drums sit on the floor on a drum rug on top of some thin boards for stability but it's not on a riser or anything. The kick drum is facing 2 feet from a wall parallel to the wall. I've got some tubular/wire metal shelving that sits behind the main desk on the opposite wall where the monitors would point but I've put some 1" thick foam on some of them. This is probably a poor guess but the room might be something like 15'x17'(including the closet)x8'.
 
Mongoo said:
I'm pretty content with the pre amps that came standard on my Akai Dps24 for now.
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One thing to remember is that you have some pretty kickass preamps in the DPS24 as it is. I think to find significantly better quality, you're going to have to start shopping in Grace / Universal Audio / Avalon territory. The DPS24 is / was the most professional of all the dedicated units on the market. I don't believe it ever had any serious competition as to design or build quality, and there certainly isn't anything in its class available new on the market today. Roland came close when it stopped its data compression algorithms in the VS2480, but its strength was AKAI's weakness - production horsepower. Both lines have now been discontinued. Don't undersell what you already have!
 
I have a DPS...I am using a Yamaha MLA7 for the 8 inputs and a Line6 UX2 for the 2 digital ins to record whole rythem sections at once...the DPS 24 preamps are blown away by the Yamaha unit hands down...that line6 can be made to sound like most any big name preamp...I highly reccomend it...it will allow you to put your big money into a microphone, and give you that great pre too.
 
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