dodgeaspen
New member
Sounds real clear lo.fi I just noticed the post after 6 days. Are you planning any vox with the song?
Post Your Analog Recordings Here...
- Thread starter jedblue
- Start date
jpmorris
Tape Wolf
This is my latest, for those who are interested:
Demonhunter (12MB)
This was done using two locked TSR-8s.
Demonhunter (12MB)
This was done using two locked TSR-8s.
dodgeaspen
New member
Sounds fantastic. Very clear & defined.
Analog fun
Hey, neat postings everyone. Here's some more.
I've been playing with a tascam 246, an sm-57 and an sm-58. I clipped #4 a bit and was too lazy to redo it today.
http://www.myspace.com/dannoise
All thoughts and input appreciated.
Hey, neat postings everyone. Here's some more.
I've been playing with a tascam 246, an sm-57 and an sm-58. I clipped #4 a bit and was too lazy to redo it today.
http://www.myspace.com/dannoise
All thoughts and input appreciated.
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dodgeaspen
New member
That's some cool music. I especially like 3 & 4. Sent a friend request.
fish fillet
thanks! I posted another one today.
www.myspace.com/dannoise
I just jam out something on one instrument then do the rest one layer at a time, and I try to improvise as much as possible until I get something that I think is at least pleasing to the ear. I'm more about learning how to record and mix than making songs as statements that stand on their own. I'm Coming up with some sort of relaxing stuff though, maybe my grandmother will dig it!
I'm getting 10 or more overdubs on my 4 track, just to try to make it sound as good as possible despite the drop in fidelity with bouncing. You can do ten tracks on a four track never having to bounce anything more than once.
[As per tascam's manuals...] ABC+D =track 4, then E(1) F(2) G(3)= track 3, H(1)+I(2) = track 2 and J gets track 1 all by itself... Takes a long time because you have to mix your music before you're even done tracking, you have to commit to ideas. You really have to think of what you want to track together based on how you want to pan everything. But it's fun.)
I refuse to buy myself any new gear (a decent mic, a good preamp...) until I can make this simple rig sound as good as I think is possible. By that time maybe I'll be able to hold a drum beat for more than 30 seconds without falling off time too...
Everyone keep posting!!! this is inspiring and a great way to get turned on to new music I may otherwise have never heard, from all levels of expertise.
dan
thanks! I posted another one today.
www.myspace.com/dannoise
I just jam out something on one instrument then do the rest one layer at a time, and I try to improvise as much as possible until I get something that I think is at least pleasing to the ear. I'm more about learning how to record and mix than making songs as statements that stand on their own. I'm Coming up with some sort of relaxing stuff though, maybe my grandmother will dig it!
I'm getting 10 or more overdubs on my 4 track, just to try to make it sound as good as possible despite the drop in fidelity with bouncing. You can do ten tracks on a four track never having to bounce anything more than once.
[As per tascam's manuals...] ABC+D =track 4, then E(1) F(2) G(3)= track 3, H(1)+I(2) = track 2 and J gets track 1 all by itself... Takes a long time because you have to mix your music before you're even done tracking, you have to commit to ideas. You really have to think of what you want to track together based on how you want to pan everything. But it's fun.)
I refuse to buy myself any new gear (a decent mic, a good preamp...) until I can make this simple rig sound as good as I think is possible. By that time maybe I'll be able to hold a drum beat for more than 30 seconds without falling off time too...
Everyone keep posting!!! this is inspiring and a great way to get turned on to new music I may otherwise have never heard, from all levels of expertise.
dan
dodgeaspen
New member
Cool stuff again. What are the people saying ? It's backwards.
A Reel Person
It's Too Funky in Here!!!
My friend,...
The 10 tracks onto the 4-track fomat through bouncing always sounds better on paper than it does in reality, although most of us have done it at one time or another. There's simply no way to avoid sonic degradation,... as you well know by now. I'm not saying "don't do it", I'm just saying,... "don't expect great results from it". Then,... as with anything there's a success story or two that goes against the rule. I've had those too.
Persuant to this statement, I'll just venture the opinion that the 4-track will sound "best" as 4-discrete first generation tracks, with no bouncing. Therefore, your first statement and your second statement are diametrically opposed, or an oxymoron. (Pardon the language!).
Under these circumstances you're choosing to work under, I'd say your single best purchase for upgrade would be a Tascam 488mkII, and leave the bouncing out of the picture.
Just a tip. You don't have to take anything I say seriously, but I have plenty of sonic examples of each type of recording,... 4-track/discrete, 4-track w/bouncing, and 8-track cassette, and the proof is in the pudding. If you want links, I can provide them, too.
Otherwise, it sounds like you're on the right track,... [heh: pun],... and everyone goes through a phase of growth and experimentation.
Thanx & Rock On!
thanks!
Thanks for the feedback! While I understand there's some loss of quality you can't escape from, I figure the only way to qualify and understand the loss of quality is to try it over and over again until I can get to a point where I know that the signal degradation is only due to the limitation of the technology, not human error (if I can learn tricks with EQ on either end and using proper levels to minimise signal quality loss). I guess that's what I meant by 'as good as possible'. But yes, I agree that (generally speaking) fidelity is going to be at its best with 4 parts on 4 tracks.
I love the 4 track format, and love working with the limitations. I want to learn to bounce 'properly' because if and when I upgrade I want to upgrade to a wider format reel to reel 4 track machine. I guess what I've been doing is a lot to expect from 1/4 of a 1/8" tape eh?
The 488 does look like a neat machine though, and I haven't heard anyone come right out and say that dividing the tape 8 times degrades signal quality noticeably, which I find hard to believe. I guess the immediate criticism of my line of thinking is that the 488 can just do 4 tracks in stereo, committing equal real estate to each track and increasing flexibility. I would SERIOUSLY miss the VU meters on the 246 though.
Sometimes when I bounce, before recording over the source track(s) I listen to them, or fade them in while I'm listening to the bounce track and sort of wince...
Bouncing creates opportunities as well that I haven't yet explored fully. I doubled the snare on 'sound experiment #3' during a bounce, and I thought it (just the snare) sounded cool(er). Phil Spector used to do all sorts of things with bouncing (ie: record a guitar part with acoustic, then bounce it under the electric guitar part that you hear, you never hear the acoustic, but it's there just thickening things up). I should try to put JUST percussion on one track and use the other three independently, or do similar layering on the other tracks, rather than consider myself having '10 tracks' available. It's sneaky things like that that I want to get into.
Maybe I should start a 4 track/bouncing thread! (can a 'newbie' do this?)...
Oh, and I'd LOVE links, listening to examples of what people are talking about is the whole reason I like this thread.
http://www.myspace.com/dannoise (everything is tascam -> garage band (had to get it on the computer somehow), and I used the parametric EQ in there, and the AU matrix reverb as well, usually just a tiny taste.)
Thanks for the feedback! While I understand there's some loss of quality you can't escape from, I figure the only way to qualify and understand the loss of quality is to try it over and over again until I can get to a point where I know that the signal degradation is only due to the limitation of the technology, not human error (if I can learn tricks with EQ on either end and using proper levels to minimise signal quality loss). I guess that's what I meant by 'as good as possible'. But yes, I agree that (generally speaking) fidelity is going to be at its best with 4 parts on 4 tracks.
I love the 4 track format, and love working with the limitations. I want to learn to bounce 'properly' because if and when I upgrade I want to upgrade to a wider format reel to reel 4 track machine. I guess what I've been doing is a lot to expect from 1/4 of a 1/8" tape eh?
The 488 does look like a neat machine though, and I haven't heard anyone come right out and say that dividing the tape 8 times degrades signal quality noticeably, which I find hard to believe. I guess the immediate criticism of my line of thinking is that the 488 can just do 4 tracks in stereo, committing equal real estate to each track and increasing flexibility. I would SERIOUSLY miss the VU meters on the 246 though.
Sometimes when I bounce, before recording over the source track(s) I listen to them, or fade them in while I'm listening to the bounce track and sort of wince...
Bouncing creates opportunities as well that I haven't yet explored fully. I doubled the snare on 'sound experiment #3' during a bounce, and I thought it (just the snare) sounded cool(er). Phil Spector used to do all sorts of things with bouncing (ie: record a guitar part with acoustic, then bounce it under the electric guitar part that you hear, you never hear the acoustic, but it's there just thickening things up). I should try to put JUST percussion on one track and use the other three independently, or do similar layering on the other tracks, rather than consider myself having '10 tracks' available. It's sneaky things like that that I want to get into.
Maybe I should start a 4 track/bouncing thread! (can a 'newbie' do this?)...
Oh, and I'd LOVE links, listening to examples of what people are talking about is the whole reason I like this thread.
http://www.myspace.com/dannoise (everything is tascam -> garage band (had to get it on the computer somehow), and I used the parametric EQ in there, and the AU matrix reverb as well, usually just a tiny taste.)
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lonewhitefly
Active member
tape to tape to another tape to another tape is a lost art and i believe an essential sound of the '60s. working with cassette is a bit of a different thing, but similar in concept. most of my favorite records had multiple bounces. i believe much of the early motown recordings were something like 8 generations removed from the basic track. then it would be duplicated for distribution.
http://www.recordingeq.com/motown/motownengr1.htm
bouncing WITHIN a machine is a bit different, most big studios in the '60s used 2 multi-tracks to accomplish this. although some big hits were done on 4-track, bouncing within the machine. tommy james "i think we're alone now" and 4 seasons' "rag doll" are 2 examples. in fact, tommy james' vocals were triple-tracked. sync response was not that great on '60s decks, so i assume most were bounced in normal mode (1, 2, 3 to 4, etc), then starting over. i've been researching what techniques were used for internal bouncing in the 60s and have come up with very little.
i am currently working on 1/2" 8-track with a plan to "upgrade" to 1/2" 4-track soon. i use bouncing extensively on most tracks.
check out some of my humble efforts --
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/MagicHerovsRockPeople
for example, the track called "one-way woman" was recorded as follows:
basic track on 1/4" 4-track (teac 3340):
1 - drums (submixed live to one track)
2 - bass
3 - rhythm guitar
bounce all to 4 (normal, not sync mode)
1 - back vocal
2 - more vocals + acoustic guitar + percussion, live while bouncing 1 in sync
back & forth
3 - 12-string electric lead
then i transferred the 4 discrete tracks to a 1/2" 8-track (teac 80-8)"
1 - acoustic / backup vocals / lead vocals / percussion
2 - bass / drums / guitar
3 - 12-string lead
4 - another lead vocal
then i added more vocals, acoustic guitar and mellotron to thicken -
5 - acoustic 12-string
6 - vocal
7 - vocal
8 - mellotron
some reverb, delays, etc were added as i went along, others during final mix to 2-track tape. no compression until the final mix. no "mastering".
there were a few songs that began on the 4-track and then i ultimately transferred them to 8-track to add more overdubs. many others began on the 8-track and had multiple internal bounces. on a few occasions, i would mix to external and then bounce back into the deck but i don't usually like working this way. there are some sparser songs that used only a few tracks but most are 10-14 tracks total and have multiple bounces.
i would also like to add that i believe bouncing makes some sources sound better and some sound worse and it all depends on the song and some infinite variables. i have been very frustrated at the degradation one some occasions (when crisp drums get mushy) and other times pleasantly surprised (thin or bright vocals become thicker and smoothed out).
http://www.recordingeq.com/motown/motownengr1.htm
bouncing WITHIN a machine is a bit different, most big studios in the '60s used 2 multi-tracks to accomplish this. although some big hits were done on 4-track, bouncing within the machine. tommy james "i think we're alone now" and 4 seasons' "rag doll" are 2 examples. in fact, tommy james' vocals were triple-tracked. sync response was not that great on '60s decks, so i assume most were bounced in normal mode (1, 2, 3 to 4, etc), then starting over. i've been researching what techniques were used for internal bouncing in the 60s and have come up with very little.
i am currently working on 1/2" 8-track with a plan to "upgrade" to 1/2" 4-track soon. i use bouncing extensively on most tracks.
check out some of my humble efforts --
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/MagicHerovsRockPeople
for example, the track called "one-way woman" was recorded as follows:
basic track on 1/4" 4-track (teac 3340):
1 - drums (submixed live to one track)
2 - bass
3 - rhythm guitar
bounce all to 4 (normal, not sync mode)
1 - back vocal
2 - more vocals + acoustic guitar + percussion, live while bouncing 1 in sync
back & forth
3 - 12-string electric lead
then i transferred the 4 discrete tracks to a 1/2" 8-track (teac 80-8)"
1 - acoustic / backup vocals / lead vocals / percussion
2 - bass / drums / guitar
3 - 12-string lead
4 - another lead vocal
then i added more vocals, acoustic guitar and mellotron to thicken -
5 - acoustic 12-string
6 - vocal
7 - vocal
8 - mellotron
some reverb, delays, etc were added as i went along, others during final mix to 2-track tape. no compression until the final mix. no "mastering".
there were a few songs that began on the 4-track and then i ultimately transferred them to 8-track to add more overdubs. many others began on the 8-track and had multiple internal bounces. on a few occasions, i would mix to external and then bounce back into the deck but i don't usually like working this way. there are some sparser songs that used only a few tracks but most are 10-14 tracks total and have multiple bounces.
i would also like to add that i believe bouncing makes some sources sound better and some sound worse and it all depends on the song and some infinite variables. i have been very frustrated at the degradation one some occasions (when crisp drums get mushy) and other times pleasantly surprised (thin or bright vocals become thicker and smoothed out).
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Magic Hero vs. Rock People
thanks! I dig your music, and it all sounds great. Are you one of a group or do you do everything yourself? Thanks for the links and the insight, I'm very interested in how things were done back in the golden era, because... (almost) nothing sounds as good these days.
As far as new analogue recordings go, check out Ryan Bourne. These tunes were recorded entirely on an 8 track tape machine (99% sure, it was definitely reel to reel analogue). He released it on vinyl as well, and it sounds amazing in that format.
http://www.myspace.com/ryanbourne
thanks! I dig your music, and it all sounds great. Are you one of a group or do you do everything yourself? Thanks for the links and the insight, I'm very interested in how things were done back in the golden era, because... (almost) nothing sounds as good these days.
As far as new analogue recordings go, check out Ryan Bourne. These tunes were recorded entirely on an 8 track tape machine (99% sure, it was definitely reel to reel analogue). He released it on vinyl as well, and it sounds amazing in that format.
http://www.myspace.com/ryanbourne
lonewhitefly
Active member
thanks! i dug your stuff as well, actually it made me realize a little bit more about that bouncing sound i love.
i am part of a group, officially there are 5 (bass/drums/guitar/organ/violin) but i often find myself filling many roles on the recordings as we use a lot of outside musicians too. i have been recording with a flute player lately for some new magic hero recordings. most of us are multi-instrumentalists as well.
i am part of a group, officially there are 5 (bass/drums/guitar/organ/violin) but i often find myself filling many roles on the recordings as we use a lot of outside musicians too. i have been recording with a flute player lately for some new magic hero recordings. most of us are multi-instrumentalists as well.
dodgeaspen
New member
Do you know Ryan Bourne? I went to the site and love the music. Very cool stuff.
yup
Ya, he's a good friend of mine, he used to play for a band and I took over for him when he left to do his own thing.
Ya, he's a good friend of mine, he used to play for a band and I took over for him when he left to do his own thing.
Thought I'd share this:
http://www.mediafire.com/?fw5b01iru75bf
It's an album I recorded (mostly) this January. The whole thing (except for two songs done on a small early-80's Panasonic tape recorder) was recorded on a Tascam 464. I used an SM57 and a matched pair of small diaphragm condenser Behringers through an ART tube preamp and ART TCSII compressor. The only non-analog parts of the recording were the reverb and echo, created with a DigiTech modeling guitar pedal. The tracks were edited together in Cool Edit Pro after being mixed down to the computer.
Enjoy...
http://www.mediafire.com/?fw5b01iru75bf
It's an album I recorded (mostly) this January. The whole thing (except for two songs done on a small early-80's Panasonic tape recorder) was recorded on a Tascam 464. I used an SM57 and a matched pair of small diaphragm condenser Behringers through an ART tube preamp and ART TCSII compressor. The only non-analog parts of the recording were the reverb and echo, created with a DigiTech modeling guitar pedal. The tracks were edited together in Cool Edit Pro after being mixed down to the computer.
Enjoy...
SteveM
New member
AllenM
Member
Here's a "jingle"/voice over advertisement that I did in about 1975/6 or so. I'm one of the voices, I'll let you guys guess as to which one.
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=818206&songID=8250224
Hey what happened to all your recordings?! I felt like hearing wildfire today...
jpmorris
Tape Wolf
Anathema
(4:48)
This one was rather fun to record. The sermon and most of the choruses were laid down in stereo through a digital phaser for that weird stereo bouncing effect. Some of them were double-tracked instead and the last version was put through the H&K Rotosphere which I usually use on the organ.
(An idea I got after listening to 'Boys of Bedlam' by Steeleye Span - why have I never tried that before...?)
The sermon itself was recorded with the machine running slightly fast so the pitch was dropped on playback.
Recorded on a single TSR-8 and mixed to a Studer A807, 7 tracks + timecode.
I would still like to redo parts of the sermon at some point.
(4:48)
This one was rather fun to record. The sermon and most of the choruses were laid down in stereo through a digital phaser for that weird stereo bouncing effect. Some of them were double-tracked instead and the last version was put through the H&K Rotosphere which I usually use on the organ.
(An idea I got after listening to 'Boys of Bedlam' by Steeleye Span - why have I never tried that before...?)
The sermon itself was recorded with the machine running slightly fast so the pitch was dropped on playback.
Recorded on a single TSR-8 and mixed to a Studer A807, 7 tracks + timecode.
I would still like to redo parts of the sermon at some point.