"Poor Man's Copyright"....Britney vs. Wallace

[tanlith]

Well... there IS a way to proove him right or wrong... but the court would have to have reasonable doubt that Britney's people are lying... the evelope and it's contents could be analysed by a foresics lab to determine:

1) age of the paper used - places a (possible) date of conception
2) Chemical makeup of the ink used - can determine a time frame of when the ink was made- indicating that it was either written 15yrs ago OR written with a 15yr old pen (not likely - as the ink would undoubtedly not last that long)

Both are reletively inexpensive tests to actually run, BUT you would need the verification of a crime lab investigator for it to hold in court. Although I'm sure there's probably reputable independend companies out there that could (for a price) run the same tests.

- Tanlith -

(Maybe I just watch too much CSI)

 

[Julia]

so it behooves us all to register our copyrights. If the cost gets to you (at $30 a song) you can also register a group of songs as a collection and split up the copyright later. I can't find the information right now, but the two fees add up to much less if you are registering, for instance, 10 songs.

I sent multiple songs to be "officially" copyrighted 4 years ago, and I STILL have never received anything back from the library of congress or whoever is supposed to send me my "official" copyright.

And yes I sent the money along with the required materials.

I'm discouraged about sending anything else since.

Julia

 

[mjareo]

Man - that stinks

I wonder if there is a phone number or email account to ask about the status of a registration....I've never done it, so I don't know much about the process.

Sorry to hear that though

 

[Aaron Cheney]

I sent multiple songs to be "officially" copyrighted 4 years ago, and I STILL have never received anything back from the library of congress or whoever is supposed to send me my "official" copyright.

And yes I sent the money along with the required materials.

I'm discouraged about sending anything else since.

Julia

That's a bad reason not to be copyrighting your stuff if you feel it's worth anything.

Did they cash your check?

Did you send it via USPS Certified Mail w/ return receipt? I always do. The extra $0.25 for the return receipt assures me they have it and it's being processed - pretty cheap peace of mind.

After 6 months had passed without word did you inquire or re-submit?

I've copyrighted lots of songs and it's never taken longer than 6 months to get my paperwork back.... sometimes as little as 2. Don't be discouraged. Thousands upon thousands of people copyright creative works every year. It's very easy and relatively cheap protection, especially if your song is ripped off by a major artist like Britney Spears (but stuff like that never happens, does it? ).

A

 

[CoolCat]

Long Wait on LoC

Call the Library of Congress. I did for the same reason and the lady told me what was up.
The Copyright showed up... many moons later.

Its the best method to copyright...but I think Britney'll pay out of court.
they know they stole it. if he only keeps the "fight" going big business often pays just to save on lawyers costs.
he'll of course sign a paper restricing/agreeing he'll never discuss it again ever.

 

[philboyd studge]

No one will ever confuse the Library Of Congress with the speed of light, but they do get it done eventually. I've had registrations completed in 10 weeks but it generally takes 4 to 6 months. TX registrations (books, etc.) seem to go a little quicker.

Remember, the work is registered when it's stamped 'recieved'.

 

[tanlith]

I sent multiple songs to be "officially" copyrighted 4 years ago, and I STILL have never received anything back from the library of congress or whoever is supposed to send me my "official" copyright.

And yes I sent the money along with the required materials.

I'm discouraged about sending anything else since.

Julia

Dunno how it works in the USA, but here in Canada you have to send a SECOND request for a certificate to verify the copyright... They never sent me back anything either ... the second time I registered my stuff I paid the "extra" $15.00 and got the certificate. Course, the last time I copyrighted any thing was about 8yrs ago...

- Tanlith -

 

[CoolCat]

4 years??

I did the multi-song PA form.
It takes awhile but never had a problem.
Last time I was the first time I called and no issues.
The lady answered the phone and noted my form had arrived and was going thru the process.

Recieved... a copy of the Form I filled out with a cheap-typo stamp on it.

Copyright. It does offer peace of mind and protection if you get ripped off.

I always send money order.

 

[wilko]

I live in New Zealand and the copyrights laws here are a little loose. For example, I own the copyright of a song "on the day of creation". I think the problem will be proving that though. Would the "poor man's copyright" be better than nothing?

Supposing I post lyrics up on a bulleting boards and somebody in the States decides to use them. Would there be any advantage in me registering the copyright of songs in the States for example?



Ta
Wilko
The Bluff Oyster season is in full swing and I am happy!

 

[MadAudio]

I think you must be a U.S citizen to copyright material in the U.S., but hey I've been wrong before.

P.S. You get a rep point just for using the word "loose" correctly! That's a rarity!

 

[tanlith]

I think you must be a U.S citizen to copyright material in the U.S., but hey I've been wrong before.

P.S. You get a rep point just for using the word "loose" correctly! That's a rarity!

Really? Guess they're being pretty loose with the REP Points then eh?



- Tanlith -

 

[glynb]

Hmmm,
I wonder how this would work for non-US songwriters. Say Britney's people ripped off an unknow british songwriter for example. they are unlikely to have registered in the US Library of Congress? Would the songwriter sue under their own law or US law?

 

[Christof]

Poor Man's Copyright? Not for me.

No WAY am I ever going to trust the Poor Man's copyright. I had a whole stack of CD's and Tapes that I've posted to myself - and then I clicked a link to this site about the Poor Man's Copyright being a myth. I've made it a bit of a mission to let people know the risks involved now!

Dont do it.

 

[tanlith]

Back in the 80s I tried the "Poor Man's Copyright" with a slight twist.

My dad's best friend was a Notery so he could legally witness stuff and sign / rubber-stamp it with his seal.

I'd put my stuff in an envelope and seal it, he'd stamp it ACROSS THE SEAL of the envelope, date it and sign it for me. I'd then mail it 1 day later. Since his date was 1 day prior to the post date it prooved it was sealed before mailing.

This was of course his idea... I wonder if this would stand up in court today?

All my stuff is properly copyrighted now, but I thought I'd share this for debate

Also it's not worth trying today as the fees would probably cost you the same ammount as a copyright... I only did it 'cause he offered to do it for free.

- Tanlith -

 

[apl]

I've heard lawyers say on other BBSs that a notarized and witnessed document of the work carries a lot of weight.

If your notary guy can stamp the envelope, he could just as well stamp the document.

And there are probably blank affidavit forms on the net you could fill in and have a couple of buds say they heard you sing the song on June 18, 1953 or something.

 

[Aaron Cheney]

All true, but you couldn't even bring it to trial until you had secured an official copyright anyway, so why not do it to begin with?

A

 

[rjt]

Aaron (and others), these posts certainly pop up from time to time. My own belief is the PMC ("poor man's copyright") and variants thereof (registered mail, notarized etc.) aren't worth anything. Some time ago, I spent a few hours surfing the web (while one of these discussions raged.) The majority of websites said it was useless, one or two said it worked fine and a couple said it is okay but weak. IMHO, as usual being a child of the sixties , do what you want. I think the PMC is a waste of a stamp and envelope. But it seems to make some people feel good, just hope you never have to use it in court (and honestly, most of us would never have to.)
I filled out the forms and copyrighted my first CD. About 6 months after I sent them in, I got back a form saying I had made a small error. I corrected it and about 6 months later, got my copyright. So, the little treasures on my first CD are mine .
Good that this keeps popping up. Lots of people are making music and some don't think about this until it is too late!
Take Care

 

[philboyd studge]

Back in the 80s I tried the "Poor Man's Copyright" with a slight twist.

My dad's best friend was a Notery so he could legally witness stuff and sign / rubber-stamp it with his seal.

I'd put my stuff in an envelope and seal it, he'd stamp it ACROSS THE SEAL of the envelope, date it and sign it for me. I'd then mail it 1 day later. Since his date was 1 day prior to the post date it prooved it was sealed before mailing.

This was of course his idea... I wonder if this would stand up in court today?


- Tanlith -

In a word, no.

My wife's a notary, it only proves the validity of you and your signature.

 

[the Ozlee]

The poor man's copyright was never intended to be the end all of legal documents. It can only serve to establish "who, what, and when" it was created. Without a complete legal copyright the damages and moneies recoverable are already covered by exsisting case law. A poor mans copyright will establish "who, what, and when" and will be admissable in court. However, it can and will be challenged by an attorney, espicially one that represents money.

Keep the faith, Ozlee

 

[bigwillz24]

I sent multiple songs to be "officially" copyrighted 4 years ago, and I STILL have never received anything back from the library of congress or whoever is supposed to send me my "official" copyright.

And yes I sent the money along with the required materials.

I'm discouraged about sending anything else since.

Julia

Same thing happened to me...

Now for the next batch of songs I'm using a lawyer.